2 TAO comparative AAR

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2 TAO comparative AAR

Postby Fantassin » Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:34 pm

Some of you asked a few weeks ago that I post pictures of Axis advance during my TAO4 tourney game against Joel137. As I still have pics from a previous game vs Pterrok and as both games ended about the same turn (16), I will post comparative screenshots of the two offensives at the start of turns 4, 6, 9, 12 and 16.

Even if both games ended in overwhelming Axis victories, you'll see how different were the main thrusts.

Comments will be minimalist but I gladly answer any questions.

Beware each pic weights between 280 and 420 Kb.
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Postby Fantassin » Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:49 pm

Here we go.

Start of turn 4 - vs Pterrok
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Start of turn 4 - vs Joel137
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As you can see, both openings were similar.

In the north, Elsenborn was taken quickly on turn 2 in both cases and the main effort is to take Malmedy as soon as possible. Joel choose to release part of 78 ID early to defend a line from Monschau to Malmedy with the help of the 7 AD, Pterrok regrouped his defense near Monschau and sent the 7 AD to Manhay-Stoumont sector.

In the center, after dispatching St-Vith and Defeilt defensors, the primary objective is to take Houffalize then depending on opportunities to go north to Manhay, west to Laroche or south to Bastogne. Pterrok sacrificed more units to slow me down and choose to hold Vielsam. Joel OTOH abandoned the sector allowing me to already take Houffalize and break thru his line.

In the south, the idea is to take Diekirch and push towards Ettelbruck and Wiltz, and to reduce the river fortifications while not releasing the 4 ID. Here Pterrok choose to contest the river crossing, joel didn't.

Edited : comments added.
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Postby Fantassin » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:50 am

Start of turn 6 - vs Pterrok
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Start of turn 6 - vs Joel137
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Now you can see some major differences between the two games.

In the north : Pterrok "invited" me on the main road to Liege with a very light defense of the Spa sector and I choosed to go for it. Joel put a hard defensive line in on this path but had to leave open the area north of Monschau lightly defended (see where the newly arrived 9 SS PzD is dispatched ;) ).

In the center : in both cases Manhay was left unscathed. Bastogne was heavily defended by Pterrok (3 rgts + Mc Auliffe/elite but with no support) and he had also well covered the Laroche-St hubert axis. Joel defense in this sector was non or no more existant and both Bastogne and Laroche already in my hands.

In the south : nothing unusual, both my opponents withdrawed their forces there. Against Pterrok my advance was unopposed as all his forces rushed back to reinforce the center sectors (west of Bastogne). Joel made a slower retreat and I was able to catch up some of his units.
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Postby valter » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:31 am

TAO is the best scenario in my opinion. It involves both attack and defense techniques. Axis can achieve impressive advances, no doubt. But what about the allies. For me it would be more impressive if I can see a successful counterattack (I would give everything to see it). I don’t know how it can be done. A decent axis player can form an unbeatable defensive line if he is not carried out. I am currently having three pbem (my first ones, from theory to action) and all seems easy wins. Normally it wouldn’t be the case from me. But, as I have seen, you being the best
(so far), I want to know if it is true or not.
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Postby Papa Smurf » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:42 am

Hey Valter - keep an eye on the AAR of my game vs Unactuality :wink:
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Postby CESteman » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:23 am

Hey guys, just a thought, but how about showing us where the KIA's are? I'd like to see that :)
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Postby Fantassin » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:00 am

I have the 'killed' screenshots for both games and will display them at the end of the AAR.
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Postby CESteman » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:19 pm

Awh! That's teasing :( Ok, I understand!
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Postby Fantassin » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:35 pm

Start of turn 9 - vs Pterrok
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Start of turn 9 - vs Joel137
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Situation were evolving quite differently now.

In the north : in the first game, Verviers, Stoumont and Manhay fell and the drive to Liege continue. Against Joel newly released divisions have reinforced the sector north of Monschau forcing its evacuation. Joel put a stiff resistance in Spa sector but the 7 AD is surrounded in Stavelot and this keylock will soon be opened.

In the center : Pterrok have now built a very solid line going south-north and Bastogne still resist. Joel OTOH was only able to protect Libramont losing St-Hubert.

In the south : in both games the advance continue almost unopposed.
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Postby Fantassin » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:17 pm

Start of turn 12 - vs Pterrok
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The push towards Liege continues and my goal was to "pocket" the US northern forces by reaching the Meuse. Pterroh realized the threat and evacuated the Monschau area (to not say 'flew' if you look at turn 12 pic). A little more in the south, Aywalle and Werbromont fell and I reached the river in front of the British sector. In the lower half of the map, Bastogne was finally captured on turn 11 but no more progress is expected exept maybe in the far south. In fact, Pterrok started local attrition counterattacks all along the line to weaken my forces.


Start of turn 12 - vs Joel137
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In the North, after the capture of Stavelot, the big Pz Divs there were sent southwards to take Stoumont, Manhay and Werbromont.
In the center, I reached Rochefort and even if there is a big gap to the west edge of the map, I have no more fuel to exploit it (plus there's no road going west from St-Hubert to supply my forces).
In the south I sent a lot of forces with the idea to close the US reinforcement hex south of Florenville. I know now they would have been better employed to "liberate" Libramont and the major road junction this city represents.
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Postby Fantassin » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:13 pm

Start of turn 16 - vs Pterrok
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This was the last turn before Pterrok resigned. The Meuse was reached and the "pocket" achieved. Infantry units may have probably escaped as they can cross the major river but others were doomed. I was still attacking west of Werbromont and Manhay, and have resumed offensive operations towards Laroche. In the far south, Florenville was seriously threatened and the last south reinforcement hex in reach to be closed.

Start of turn 16 - vs Joel137
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Almost the last turn as Joel resigned one turn later. Envisaged turn 12 objectives were all achieved. At this point four offensive operations were under developpment : in the far north, forces were going to be sent to strike east of Verviers while still putting a lot of pressure near Battice; near Werbromont the three SS PzD were turning north to take Aywaille and try to break thru towards Liege; in the center attacks started to be made to take Marche and Hotton; in the south the two SS PzD were expected to join the 2 PzD to help in the capture of Libramont.
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Postby pterrok » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:38 am

Sigh. This game was the FIRST time I had played TAO4--I placed an 'ad' challenging Twinkle, Stevel40831 or Fantassin to play it with random weather, unknown unit strength AND they could pick the side they wanted, just to see what it was like before the TAO4 tourny started...

I learned a lot in the loss, but it was a complete fiasco as far as being a challenge to Fantassin went! :lol: I would have played longer just to see how much the Allies could have done even though an eight-fold overwhelming loss was inevitable, but the tourny started so I decided to throw in the towel.

The pocket that he formed at the north was the result of my not seeing until a bit late that there is only ONE board-edge supply hex up there. What with Elsenborn being indefensible in this version it's the first time I noticed that! Note, however, the pocket that was formed on Turn 16 IS supplied since the Allies have a truck which can supply other trucks--and it was supplying the truck stuck over the river.

Fantassin was not afraid to push his units so that they would go red if I attacked--I think there may even have been a case where he ran it red himself to grab a hex and/or as part of an attack to take an objective.

I think the biggest thing I decided to do as Axis because of this game was to push as far as I could in the south. Doing so does lots of good things:

1) Gives the Axis lots of VPs
2) Keeps the Allies from getting reinforcements along the southern board edge
3) Makes it a LOT easier to take Bastogne as it can be pressured from the south

The negatives are:

1) The Allies get some replacements (But they didn't help me much as I had lost way too many units)
2) It extends the Axis line IF the Allies are strong enough to make a counterattack later

I feel that by making a strong southern push the Axis can make a knock-out blow simply because the Allies will be SO far behind that they're likely to get discouraged and give up.

What I learned as the Allies was to pull back even faster than I had to preserve some forces since the objectives fell anyway. I had made some wrong choices about trying to hold some to try and slow him up--which is why my KIA count was so high. Knowing where I was going to end up as Allies in later games also helped with placing the minefields and strongpoints to build a line in advance, instead of placing them piece-meal to slow the Axis down.


P.S.--it's also a bit discouraging to find that Fantassin still has the turns from this game which was ended months and months ago still on his hard-drive! Does he throw nothing away? Does he keep them to try and analyze my possible moves in any upcoming TAO4 game against him? Hah! I'll fool him--it would be sooooo easy to play completely differently! :lol: (If I just play competently he'd be stunned! :P )
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Postby Fantassin » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:23 am

:lol: It was also the first time I played TAO4 (except for some opening training against the AI of course).

Pterrok, in fact I totally forgot these screenshots or why I still have them on my HD. When some weeks ago, Sorcerer I believe, asked if I could post pics of my game against Joel I 'rediscovered' them. I then decided it could be interesting to compare the two games at the same turns.
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Postby Fantassin » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:48 am

And now for CESteman ... the kills (beware large pics) :

Kills - vs Pterrok
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Kills - vs Joel137
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In both game, only two german kills (Von der Heyte + another) vs more than 60 (maybe 70 IIRC) allied.
Note in Pterrok game the last 2 ID rgt killed over the Meuse. :twisted:
In Joel game, see the supply truck killed in Pondrone by a daring recon unit (116 PzD or Pz Lehr I don't remember which one) and note the series of destroyed units along 1 SS PzD path between Losheim and Werbromont.

That's all folks ...
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