Normandy Revisited (AAR #2)

Discussion relating to Battles in Normandy

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Postby Roger Keating » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:00 pm

Actually the Carpet Bombing was just a bit of Allied propaganda. The Allies don't get it till after this scenario finishes.

All I have at my disposal is a ton of air power, artillery and men so I will just have to use these as best I can...
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Postby Joe » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:00 pm

Yes,

The next AAR, perhaps could be based on the following scenario. The second half so to speak.
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Postby panzmatt » Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:30 am

Roger, was the carpet bombing removed for play balance? in the first scenario is what I'm refering too?
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Postby Roger Keating » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:26 am

It is following the historical timing of such events. Carpet Bombing was used later in the DDay campaign.

Remember that the British were going to take Caen on day 1 and the US would push inland against weakened German forces.

Only after the hard lessons had been learnt were the strategic bombers bought in, and they had to spend a bit of time convincing Bomber Command to do it. The fact that there were many Allied causalities shows that the decision to use them was a hard one.

That will not worry your average gamer though and at the start of the Breakout Scenario the British and the US get the ability to carpet bombing and I doubt that there will be much thought about a few Allied losses. It really does do a lot of damage.
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Postby panzmatt » Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:57 am

Not to say your wrong, but didn't a run of heavies hit Omaha on june 6th? That is what I show.. maybe I need to pull up my sources... just curious as my understanding that they where used ineffectivly on day 1, so your comment made me think this was a play balance issue...
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Postby Roger Keating » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:38 am

In the game we reflect bombardment, that is, artillery used to take out known entrenched positions. The use of bombers to 'carpet' a 4 kilometer square of countryside to support an Allied attack was not carried out till much later.

Mainly as a result of the poor penetration the Allied forces were experiencing.

I should also note here that I do not have the historical background of others in SSG and am not responsible for the final decisions used in the game.
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Postby panzmatt » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:41 am

Ok, I'll see if I can find the reference about the heany bombers used on D-day... keep up the good work...
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Carpet bombing

Postby Carl Myers » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:56 am

A couple squadrons of bombers used on D-Day pales in comparasion of several hundred bombers used in Operation Cobra.
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Postby panzmatt » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:40 am

from a web page:
"The 386th Bomb Group (chosen by Eisenhower) was last to drop just 5 minutes ahead of the invading troops. Carpet bombing using 100 lb bombs to tear up barbed wire defenses, explode land mines and create instant fox holes. Deep enough for the ground forces but not too deep to hamper tanks and landing vehicles. 290 Marauders dropped 550 tons of bombs with extremely accurate results. "
That was medium bombers, I thought heavies where used at Omaha where they missed the drop and beat up some bushes...
I'm still looking
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Re: Carpet bombing

Postby Treale » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:41 pm

Carl Myers wrote:A couple squadrons of bombers used on D-Day pales in comparasion of several hundred bombers used in Operation Cobra.


I'm not sure how many were used, but my Father was there and he said that they blotted out the sun :!:
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Postby Robjess » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:37 pm

Me thinks that the Allies have stretched their lines a little bit now.. and whilst I have been quite reluctant to do so before, I was happy again this turn to allow my units around Caen to skirmish with the Allied Soccer players.. ermm soldiers.

This time launching an assault on the village to the north east of Caen..

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I was able to destroy and take prisoner two Brit ARM Recon units.. I couldnt have really got much of a better result.. so that makes up for my poor luck last turn. Needless to say the village and bridges are back in German hands :)

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Further west, many German units have been unable to escape as the Allies advance and now without supplies have routed and are about to surrender.

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Around Carentan, I have had to pull my line back so that I can redistribute units elsewhere - trying to get some degree of divisional intregrity and make my line more solid..

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Postby Joe » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:09 pm

In the final screenie, in the upper left, is a cross road with a small German cross.

What is the meaning of the cross? It appears elsewhere too.

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Postby chris miller » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:11 am

I'm guessing alert points, and who their awarded to.
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Postby Roger Keating » Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:04 am

The small German cross indicates non-important towns that started the scenario under German control. Important towns have biggers icons. There is a choice in the system to see all objectives or just important ones.

The major action has once again occurred in the West. The German units that could not make it to their Southern lines have now surrendered and US forces are re-organizing themselves ready to continue the offensive. The KIA screen shows ...

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Not a lot of good German units were taken but at least there are less units with which to hold the line. Cherbourg is now cleared of strong points and reinforcements can land there but it will be another 4 turns until supply can be drawn from the port as the supply dump there has to rebuild before it can operate.

The Western line now looks like ..

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Attacks have taken place along the line and moral is high.

Now to the British sector....

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I launched one good attack next to Villers this turn hoping for D2R result and got a '*'. The combat advisor reports very few opportunites along the line and any action around Caen could leave the British horribly exposed. Even the soccer games have been abandoned as the ref seems to have lost any ability to control the Axis thugs that keep disrupting the game.

One of the problems here is the lack of British artillery. The US can call upon a full array of artillery support but the British have to front up with real men. The Germans, on the other hand, completely outgun the British forces and can launch deadly counter attacks. They have several +2 and +3 artillery pieces which means that the line has to be keep solid or a breakthrough could occur. At least the forces here are tied down and can't help out in the West where the Axis forces are in trouble.
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Postby Robjess » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:53 pm

At the start of each of my turn (and it has looked like this for this since the Brits decided to park themselves 'out of harms way' several days ago) this is what opportunities I have.

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Previously I had been too scared to attack - but as you can see from the combat odds - I do have alot of fire power available to me around Caen. Combine this with the terrain that Roger has his men in (mostly Clear) then it can start to prove a bit of a disaster for the Allied player.

So I threw caution to the wind again and order the attack. Im being quite cautious though - I am only attack targets I can reach within withrawl distance of the Caen itself. This way I can attack and then run back into the city.

My first assault went like this:

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A 2 step loss and retreat to Roger and no losses to me. I then scurried back to the city limits.

My following assault to the west of Caen - picking on some Brit Cromwells again (remember last time they got off lucky and just retreated out of harms way..) went like this..

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Now thats what Im talking about! I almost destroyed them outright and I really couldnt have done much better - 3 losses to his Allied tanks and no losses to me!

In the next few turns I think I have the 1SS Panzer Division arriving in the area and I will be looking to place them in an attacking position out of Caen so I can really cause Roger some headaches. Although I note that Roger has now cleared the Cherbourg Pennisula and that frees up some valuable assets for him - like the 2nd ARM division. I guess he may be seeking to redirect those guys to help out Monty's Merry Men.

Could prove interesting..
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