TAO4 Feature AAR

Discussion relating to Battles in Normandy

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Postby Robjess » Thu May 27, 2004 11:38 pm

They aint coming back alive..
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Postby Joel137 » Thu May 27, 2004 11:55 pm

So its definitely a KEEP THEM PROTECTED!

or "Its the supply trucks stupid" :)
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Postby Twinkle » Fri May 28, 2004 12:21 am

I would say that it is clever to stack a combat unit with your close to the front supply trucks, as you always risk that the enemy punch a hole in your defence and let a recon unit run the gauntlet until it finds something interesting behind your former solid defence.

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Postby Roger Keating » Fri May 28, 2004 9:35 am

Noe Rob, it isn't very fair to just quote the actual turn score.... Here is the only relavent one..

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As you can see the 1000 point advantage reduces to a highly attainable 300 points if nothing else happens. Now there is a thing called air interdiction that can cripple an unwary Axis player, or one that is not capturing the road network and is, perhaps, following the advice of the CA. Remember Rob that this could be an Allied plant, feeding false information to the Axis cause.

I will admit, however, that it is very difficult to maintain a solid defensive line and the best defense is to concentrate your opponents mind on a different area of the board. The South is looking grim for the Axis..


Image


In this current iteration of TAO, the attacking opportunities for the Axis player are enhanced, but it is important that supply lines are carefully maintained. The Axis in Ettelbruck ran out of bullets and surrendered this turn, I expect more to follow. Also, I perfer to fight in the relatively open area around Bastogne than the more heavily forested areas to the North.
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Postby Chris Merchant » Fri May 28, 2004 5:45 pm

of course, in a tournament game, the Allied player should be publicly acting "scared" to lead the Axis player on :-)

Personally, the "Denethor" approach has worked for me in many a situation!

This is something I enjoy as the Allied player in the first 10-12 turns of TAO - restraint with attacking combined with clever positioning should always lead to rewards later in the game.

But you have to stayed focussed!

What a terrific gaming system this is.
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Postby Robjess » Fri May 28, 2004 9:15 pm

As a last ditched effort in the North - one of the German Recon units breaks off to secure Liege.. it is rumoured that letters to their loved ones are already prepared.. and it is said they mutters of "for the motherland" were overhead before they departed..

To coincide with this units to the south of Manhay were also ordered to rush forward. It appears that someone forgot to tell the German High Command that a successful encirclement requires more then 2 units.

Forces are also pulled from the line around Spa in support of the "duel Recon" advance :)

Image

Down south, well I did say that my actions in the north were a last ditched effort..

Image

Several support and ART units had to be abandoned..
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Postby Roger Keating » Fri May 28, 2004 10:22 pm

Well, I suppose I should have a look at the North, something I have been a bit reticent to do of late.

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The rather bold recon unit now has a choice of surrendering and having a good cup of tea and/or coffee, as both allies are currently adjacent.

Manhay is looking a bit iosolated, but holding, and other areas of the Northern front definitely need a bit of Paris leave. The trusty airforce has once again laid down a good amount of interdiction which, it is hoped, has avoided the flak units.

Fuel must be getting thin on the ground and this looks definitely like a last desparate attempt to see the Meuse. 2 armor is arriving on the scene and will be used to address a few unfortunate bulges in the line.
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Postby Robjess » Sun May 30, 2004 10:18 am

Wow.. did I spent along time on this turn.. running the gauntlet last turn didnt benefit me much at all.. but we sort of knew that... it was a bold move to try and disrupt Allied supplies and send their commanders into a spin. The dealt with it calmly though and sent two men and an air rifle off to deal with my 'threat'.

In the north, I have pulled my extremes back a little and I am trying to consolidate - which working on what should be mine - like Manhay. Those units in Manhay should be under alot of pressure.. they but arent! The reason that they arent is that I havent actually been attacking them! Instead I was trying to push around it and trying to convince Roger to leave to the town. He didnt want to play like that, and last turn was my last ditched effort at trying to isolate them. But my 'made dash' didnt pull those vital units away as I had hoped'.

So this turn I have ordered the mighty (?) German air force to interdict the roads just behind Manhay.. in addition to this I ordered an assault on the town at medium odds.. not in an attempt to dislodge them.. but rather to put pressure on them and eat up vital supplies. I fear its too little too late. Although I did order another Tank battalion (who could not back it back behind lines) on a suicide mission to try and cut supply lines.. running at full hilt, he came upon an Allied supply/HQ unit just as they ran out of fuel. Stopping just yards out of range of their cannons!

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This turn I received 2 divisions as reinforcements, they have been directed down south to the Bastogne front. Although in the North I have pulled units from my line elsewhere to reinforce Manhay.

One of my biggest problems now, especially down south is that many of my ART units have been caught in the front and either have to be defended or left behind as I fall back. This turn I was able to lay down a strongpoint which I assign to Houffalise - which I assume is high of the list of "towns conquer next" for the Allies.

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Postby Roger Keating » Sun May 30, 2004 1:09 pm

Although there is pressure on Manhay the Allies are starting to develop an agressive attitude. It isn't pleasant to open any turn and find a German unit next to your supply truck but as it is in the red I know I can deal with it later.

Next turn 15 reinforcements arrive to reinforce the line and moral in the Allied lines is getting much better.

The barraging artillery up north have started work on the West Wall. The results so far are...

Image

We should be able to open up a few gaps over the next couple of turns.

The situation around Manhay is


Image

Note the road corridors behind the line. The Allied air force is now in full operation and supplies to the front are going to be few and far between for the exhausted German offensive there.If Rob hasn't placed the AA in good positions then there will be few units that can do anything next turn.

This version of TAO requires players to look at a lot of additional information to conduct a successful operation. The supply system reacts to the current turn only, unlike the carry over effect in TAO3 where you could cycle supply trucks near the front line. In this version supply trucks receive supply at the start of the turn, then immediately hand them out. This makes supply management a more urgent affair and interdiction can really cause a lot of havoc.

Back to you, Rob...
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Postby Twinkle » Sun May 30, 2004 1:16 pm

Roger Keating wrote:The supply system reacts to the current turn only, unlike the carry over effect in TAO3 where you could cycle supply trucks near the front line. In this version supply trucks receive supply at the start of the turn, then immediately hand them out. This makes supply management a more urgent affair and interdiction can really cause a lot of havoc.


I'm happy now ... :) it finally works as I thought it worked for well above 5 months, until someone at this board explained how supply trucks really work. Nice enhancement. :)

Regards
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Postby Robjess » Sun May 30, 2004 2:21 pm

Well lets have a look at how effective my AA units actually were. Here is an image of the area around Manhay - that Roger interdicted last turn - with the units removed from the map, just so we can have a good view of the hexes and interdiction markers.

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The highlighted interdiction markers represent the hexes where Roger's interdiction was successful. The grayed out markers show the area's where my AA fire and placement was successful. So you can see that my placement of an AA unit in Vielsalm was successful. Mind you where interdiction was successful has given me some problems.

Here is a German tank unit that is stranded. Having used all of its fuel.. with next to no supplies coming through.. he really cant move anywhere.

Image Image
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Postby Robjess » Mon May 31, 2004 8:26 pm

For each attack I make now I run the risk of taking losses.. so whilst there are plenty of overrun opportunities there is a fine balance between taking them (and risking a loss whilst also inflicting losses) and keeping my units a state where they are able to defend and not be overrun themselves. Needless to say.. I attacked :)

I have isolated Manhay now.. but I dont expect it to last as my units are now getting very week and I dont think they will be able to hold.. esp given Roger's statement about all of his reinforcements coming into play.

Image

Whilst I am killing a few Allied Units - I dont seem to be making any headway and as stated.. my units are not getting any stronger.. whilst the Allies are.. here is a shot of the area around Manhay showing all killed units:

Image

Way down south - do you really want to see it?

Image

Well, Im looking forward to that BiN AAR now :)
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Postby Roger Keating » Mon May 31, 2004 10:17 pm

This is a very short report as I had disabled the map dump feature and had not reactivated it. Such is the life of a programmer... not that there is much to report...

The men in Manhay are not in good shape, all red and nowhere to run. The armor and the terrain do not make it possible to get to them in time although I have thrown four air interdictions into the area and rushed reinforcements to try to get some semblance of honor out of the situation.

I am sure that Rob will have lots of shots in his next turn.

Down South things are bogged down but the area in front of Bastogne is looking weak for the Axis.

The one good thing for the turn is I have blown away one of the West Wall strong points and have started working on strong point number two.
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Postby Joel137 » Mon May 31, 2004 11:41 pm

Looking at the shot of dead units around Manhay; it appears that there are a fair number of US independent regts (Btn). Have their number increased in TAO4. I suppose I'm also asking if there are some OOB changes with the new scenario and a rough idea of what they are if the answer is yes.
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Postby Roger Keating » Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:51 am

Yes, there has been a complete revamping of the OOB. Ian was responsible for it so I can't give a definitive answer. The mix of units means a change of tactics is essential to play a challenging game.

In my first game I rushed my German AA units to the front as they have great movement, something I will never do again. There are many changes and the system is a lot more aggressive with overruns almost always available every turn. For those who use the CA to decide tactics there are many opportunities to lose big time.

As the German I have been able to get my armor spearhead to Dinant against good Allied play, but they immeditately ran out of fuel and the result was fairly historical.
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