Battles in Italy AAR

Discussion relating to Battles in Italy

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Postby Joe » Tue May 10, 2005 11:27 am

Whooo! It will be tought for the Axis.

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Postby pterrok » Fri May 13, 2005 2:18 am

I'm going to do a little kibitzing here since they haven't posted a turn in a while...(and I hope I don't get in trouble!)

Gregor Whiley wrote:Both of our Generals will find supply matters intruding upon their otherwise untroubled consideration of military matters. Given the unreliable nature of some Italian units, the Axis has no real choice but to spread out their German units along the line to stiffen morale. As there is only one German supply truck, this will present some difficulties.


Those of you have played me may know that a favorite tactic of mine is to make really low odds attacks to use up the defenders bullets when I've got them interdicted. Now I'm not saying this was added to Italy to thwart me, but.... :lol:

They added to the CRT minimum odds needed to make an attack! The minimum odds can be different for each terrain. Since the most common terrain is Foothills, let's see what they're fighting on:

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So see that you have to muster some decent odds to make an attack in the first place! You can still hit them at 1-2 in the clear, though mountains need 3-1 to even make an attack.


From another thread:

Gregor Whiley wrote:There are now many game settings that can vary by country, the most important of these being hexes required for tactical shifts...


What he means is this:

US
Image

Which if you think about it, is what it was like to attack an entrenched defender. Compare it to this:

German
Image

and note how lighting up green arrows affects the shifts you get depending on which country you are! (And they're different still for Italians and the British.) So the Germans can get overrun attacks a LOT easier than the US can since they get so many more combat shifts.

Furthermore, while the US and Brits still can't combine attacks, the Germans and the Italians CAN--and when they do, they use the best of their combat shifts tables. So it really behooves the Axis to get a German unit in the Italian attacks!

This IS what takes the most getting used to in the new engine--the defender starts at ZERO defensive shifts and gets -1 for entrenching and minuses for defensive arty. The ATTACKER then gets minus shifts if he doesn't get enough green arrows depending on his nationality. (And this is probably why we might have a testers bracket separate from the regular players bracket in the first tourny.)
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Postby Joe » Fri May 13, 2005 8:23 am

pterrok wrote:....a favorite tactic of mine is to make really low odds attacks to use up the defenders bullets when I've got them interdicted.


When a defender has no more than 2 bullets this works fine.

How can you get it to work when he has more than 2?

The most common combat result here is "A2".
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Postby Cpt. Feathersword » Fri May 13, 2005 8:44 am

Joe wrote:
pterrok wrote:....a favorite tactic of mine is to make really low odds attacks to use up the defenders bullets when I've got them interdicted.


When a defender has no more than 2 bullets this works fine.

How can you get it to work when he has more than 2?

The most common combat result here is "A2".


The more bullets the harder it is to effectively use that tactic but it's still possible.
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PTERROK's Analysis

Postby Deathtreader » Fri May 13, 2005 12:08 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the great commentary on the minimum odds & the tactical shifts varying by country. Both are great steps forward & will add much value to the series. But I have to ask.............does this mean a multi-hex based attack (say for example, an attack from four hexsides) composed entirely of 2nd rate German "OST" units would garner more tactical shifts than a similar attack from 4 hexsides composed entirely of elite U.S. Rangers or British Commandos or.............
Shouldn't individual unit quality factor in the equation somehow?? Did I miss something??

Rob. :?
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Postby Joe » Fri May 13, 2005 12:10 pm

The poor quality units never provide a shift. Its in the BIN manual (somewhere).
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Postby Roger Keating » Fri May 13, 2005 12:11 pm

Ost battalions are sub standard and do not add to the tactical factors, the same is true in Italy.

If normal or elite units are used then it is assumed that the German command structure is controlling the combat and thus getting the better factors due to their experience and ability.
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Talk about fast..........

Postby Deathtreader » Fri May 13, 2005 12:21 pm

Roger Keating wrote:Ost battalions are sub standard and do not add to the tactical factors, the same is true in Italy.

If normal or elite units are used then it is assumed that the German command structure is controlling the combat and thus getting the better factors due to their experience and ability.


Roger and Joe 98,

Thanks for the instant reponses! Glad that I'm the one who missed something..........
When do you want my money??

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Postby J Campbell » Fri May 13, 2005 9:40 pm

do the crt 's for common terrain remain the same from say normandy to italy
or do they change.

In Normandy there are no foothills but clear terrain and towns etc. are the odds the same from italy clear as it is for Normandy clear??

thanks,
john


the game looks great by the way and i am ready to order- will matrix be offering a digital download plus cd like in Bin?
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Postby Robjess » Fri May 13, 2005 9:48 pm

CRTs usually change from scenario to scenario. So yes I would say that they are not exactly the same..
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Postby Roger Keating » Fri May 13, 2005 10:57 pm

Also in Italy the CRT's change from good ground condition to bad so each type of terrain can have two different CRT's attached to them.

In shingle, the bad weather CRT's offer very little in the way of reteats, which can only be achieved by attacking in good ground conditions.

In Husky and Avalanche (Sicily and Salerno) the scenarios are more fluid and the CRT's in good and bad conditions are not so far apart.
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Allied Report for 12 July 1943 (turn 3)

Postby JSS » Sat May 14, 2005 11:48 am

12 July 1943 -- Turn 3

504th PIR reports that it’s lost communications with a battalion. Otherwise operations seem ready for expanding the beachheads. Intelligence collected from prisoners indicates that only half the Italian force is willing to fight it out. It also indicates that two very strong and experienced German mechanized divisions are on the island (HG Panzer Division and 15th Panzer Grenadier Division). The German divisions and the stubborn Italians are reported to have set up enforcement elements to make the reluctant Italians fight... Still the Germans can’t possibly be that good with Pz Armee Afrika in Allied POW camps and the spear of the Wehrmacht firmly stuck into Kursk... can they?

American Forces - Morning

3d Infantry Division is facing no opposition near Licata so they will be able to move out smartly.

Image

The Gela forces seem to have found something hard: Italians not quitting and the HG Pz Div! This will slow things down…

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…here’s why. Elite units, sky high division integrity, and look at that movement capability!

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Still the HG Pz Div has two Achilles Heels… One can be deducted from the image above… the other will be discussed after I grab hold of it!

Commonwealth Forces - Morning

Things are looking much brighter this morning for the Commonwealth. Supply is flowing off the docks and CW forces are ready to break onto the plains South of Catania.

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Combat Action

CW forces clear opposition easily to link up with the American forces.

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As CW forces break onto the plains something new is encountered: Italians fighting to the bitter end! Notice the surrender message is not present in the combat dialogue.

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End of Day Closeout Report

US forces from Licata continue to advance unopposed.

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US forces from Gela encounter elements of three Italian divisions in addition to the HG Pz Div. HG Pz Div is given a good rap on the nose but is unmoved by the experience (1 step lost).

Image

CW forces break onto the plains, grab the first bridge, and put it back into action. They will have to establish a firm bridgehead tomorrow prior to advance across the plains. Allied airpower should mute the Axis response.

Image
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Re: Battles in Italy AAR Axis Report

Postby Twinkle » Mon May 16, 2005 8:51 am

Axis turn 3 report...

The map areas of interest is:

1) US westward attack that grabs a lot of terrain as they move towards Palermo.

2) US attack in northeast direction that tries to break down my initial forces. I must hold here.

3) Battling the Commonwealth troops.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1)
Lots of low quality divisions (206 Coastal & Aosta) moves towards the US troops trying to hinder the enemy. They are joined by the relatively good Italian Pira division.

The 15 PzGr division stationed east could easily join the above troops and create some real troubles for the nearby US troops. However, they are surprisingly given orders to move in a northerly circle, passing by Palermo, towards the British troops. This will take some time but hopefully pay of nicely. The poor quality 208 Coastal division take the same route.

Image

2)
The attack by 1st Div and 2nd Arm put my Liverno division in a precarious situation, so they adjust the defensive line. The HG division is in a real bad spot, supply wise, and just sits it out.

Image

3)
3rd and 4th FJ regiment have landed at Catina airfield as a quick response force and are directly moved d\south, while the temporary Kampfgruppe Scmalz (will break up on turn 8) quickly engage and throw back the enemy air landing brigade.

Image

Sorry, all screenshot show situation at start on turn. BTW; only browsers who understand what a transparent layer is (for example Netscape) will display pictures as they should.

Oh, and just to illustrate how limited and difficult movement is for mechanised forces... highlighted hexes are those allowed for movement.

Image


Cheers!,
/twinkle ;)
Last edited by Twinkle on Sat May 28, 2005 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Allied Report for 12 July 1943 (turn 3)

Postby Joe » Mon May 16, 2005 10:13 am

JSS wrote:Still the HG Pz Div has two Achilles Heels… One can be deducted from the image above… the other will be discussed after I grab hold of it!



Which Achilles heel can be deducted from the image above and have you captured the other ?
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Postby coralsaw » Mon May 16, 2005 4:20 pm

I think he's talking about the Pz Regt not accepting replacements, having only its limited organic ones. Plus organic replacements for the whole Div are rather few.

Which brings me to a small point I wanted to ask: Could you guys fix this green/orange color of not_accepting/accepting replacements and making it into the default grey/green that all other unit capabilities have. It's counterintuitive as is. Come on now guys, it's just a color. :)

Great AAR, keep it coming.

/coralsaw
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