Recon Units

Have a suggestion or some feedback? Dont keep it to yourself - share it!

Moderators: AlexS, Run5 Staff, SSG Staff

Recon Units

Postby Pawlock » Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:42 am

A suggestion for perhaps future updates would be a facility to have the Recon Units say give up thier action for the turn for a facility whereby thier view is extended by 2 or 3 hexes.
Pawlock
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:29 pm
Location: Bristol, England

Postby Robjess » Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:33 am

Interesting idea...

In BiN, exposure will be able to be variably set by the scenario designer and will be linked to terrain and quite possibly weather conditions (I think)..
User avatar
Robjess
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5126
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:33 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Brubaker » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:20 am

Certainly a good idea that a unit designated as recon could have slightly differing capabilites. 8)
User avatar
Brubaker
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:57 am

Postby Pawlock » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:25 am

Unfortunatly I cant claim complete credit for this idea as they do something similar in Pzc games by HPS.
Pawlock
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:29 pm
Location: Bristol, England

Postby Roger Keating » Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:22 am

In BIN hidden mode is handled in a different manner than KP. Units are exposed or hidden as the play takes place. So moving a friendly unit away from the front line could cause a number of enemy units to 'disappear'.

Also there is a larger database of values used by the scenario designer, in KP these values were fixed and did not allow any sophistication.

For each side values are entered for each of the unit types (Combat, Supply, Support and Artillery) for good and bad weather to indicate when a unit will be hidden or appear as a country style unit.

In the terrain database each terrain type can aid hidden units by adding to the apparent distance a unit is away from the enemy.

In the unit database recon units can 'see' additional hexes making exposure much easier.

If a unit is adjacent to an enemy unit then it is automatically exposed and if one hex away is either fully exposed or a country counter, it can't be hidden. Strongpoints in BIN act as a unit for exposure purposes, unlike KP where they do not contribute to sighting.

This makes for a more subtle system which seems to work well in our initial games.

Hope this explanation helps.
User avatar
Roger Keating
SSG
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Twinkle » Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:57 am

Thanks Roger!, that sounds like a great improvement. Might you give us any other news regarding changes/improvements in BiN compared to the KP engine?

or can any beta tester toss out a couple of teasers... :D

/twinkle
User avatar
Twinkle
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 2366
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Sweden

Postby Roger Keating » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:17 am

Some machine problems have cost me about a weeks work over the past month and there is some small pressure to get the game completely working so I have chained myself to the chassis of my computer and bought in fresh stocks of coffee.

I will have an SSG copy of the game for final Alpha testing this Wednesday and am intending to put out a CD to testers next week. Ian and I are finalizing the organic truck rules as well as the new recon units.

Ian is very happy with the Unknown Unit structure as it is scenario independent so once done you can move them to a completely seperate scenario and have it wprking in seconds, rather than the many hours in KP.

We are happy with the progress we are making but before anyone asks .... it will be ready when it is ready.
User avatar
Roger Keating
SSG
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Joe » Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:53 am

[quote="Roger Keating"]

In the terrain database each terrain type can aid hidden units by adding to the apparent distance a unit is away from the enemy.

In the unit database recon units can 'see' additional hexes making exposure much easier.
[quote]


Great feature ! Its important that features such as this are explained clearly in the manual.
Joe
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:32 pm

Postby Pawlock » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:24 am

In BIN hidden mode is handled in a different manner than KP. Units are exposed or hidden as the play takes place. So moving a friendly unit away from the front line could cause a number of enemy units to 'disappear'.


From what you have said, thier looks some great features gonna be introduced, although from above you say uniys can become unspotted as well by moving units away? Whats the reasoning behind this? as to me once spotted in your present move that should be it. Simply moving away does not normally make something dissapear.

Just seems a bit strange that, am I missing something?
Pawlock
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:29 pm
Location: Bristol, England

Postby Joe » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:30 am

The logic is: If you move far enough away you cannot see it. And therefore you don't know whether it is still there.

Currently if it moves away, you see it move at least one hex before it disappears.

I think its a good feature and will allow players to suprise each other. But its true that some of us don't like to be suprised :) :wink:
Joe
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:32 pm

Postby Pawlock » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:39 am

Joe wrote:The logic is: If you move far enough away you cannot see it. And therefore you don't know whether it is still there.

Currently if it moves away, you see it move at least one hex before it disappears.

I think its a good feature and will allow players to suprise each other. But its true that some of us don't like to be suprised :) :wink:


I see where your coming from, but to me it still does not tally. WW2 onwards once spotted , coordinates are no doubt taken and passed around, so actual visibilty after it has been spotted should not count. I do however agree that once the enemy unit moves outta range it should become unspotted, but in this instance we are talking parameteres of 1 players turn so moving again does not come into play.

I have no problem with suprises, but this is not quite what Im concerned about.

In fact did not recon units go ahead to scout and plot enemy positions then withdraw having gained that information? To me this negates any possible recreation of this feature.
Pawlock
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:29 pm
Location: Bristol, England

Postby Roger Keating » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:55 am

In real play, one player moves up on another, thus exposing that players units, or retreats, where the disappearing units do not matter greatly as attacking is not an option.

We talked about having varing exposure models but felt that this would be confusing without adding any real benefit.

I will be listening carefully to the testers to see if they also support our decisions.

This exposure model also makes simultaneous network play possible, something that I would like down the track.
User avatar
Roger Keating
SSG
 
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Joel137 » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:31 am

Another thought regarding recon units, in addition to something like exchanging their extended move capability, perhaps they could have retreat combat abilities, something along the lines of they get to retreat instead of taking a step loss in their first battle of a turn. If need be, in compensation perhaps their attack factor could be diminished over current standards.

Just thinking of things that could have them function in their recon roll without being quite so vulnerable to elimination.
User avatar
Joel137
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:19 am
Location: Brookings, South Dakota

Postby Twinkle » Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:37 am

Joel137 wrote:Another thought regarding recon units, in addition to something like exchanging their extended move capability, perhaps they could have retreat combat abilities, something along the lines of they get to retreat instead of taking a step loss in their first battle of a turn. If need be, in compensation perhaps their attack factor could be diminished over current standards.

Just thinking of things that could have them function in their recon roll without being quite so vulnerable to elimination.


Just make sure that they are not placed in absolutely unhistorical locations then you finish your turn. Recon units should scout forward before you move in order to give some hints about the enemy, but they should of course not be left alone in a vulnerable position after your movement is completed. Funny enough, but they do seem to need the same protection as other battalion sized units or weaker regiments do. Please don't be mad at me, but the only thing needed for anyone who I presumes have lost a lot of recon units in AtD (and to some degree in the KP Campaign), is to start taking care about the smaller units. Stack them together, try to figure out how far the enemy can move during his turn etc...
User avatar
Twinkle
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 2366
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Sweden

Postby Joel137 » Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:40 pm

Now, why would I get mad? Just because your disagreeing with several of my posts on the board :P

Actually I agree with what you said above! It brings out some good points to the arguement that recon units are too vulnerable. I suppose one could argue, that their elite status is what allows them to be present at all in a regiment level game and their typical two-step status is somewhat the equivalent of making them extra invulnerable already.

Sometimes I'll make proposals that I'm not necessarily sure of to spark discussion on the other side of the question to find out better what the reasoning is on several sides of an issue.
User avatar
Joel137
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:19 am
Location: Brookings, South Dakota


Return to Feedback/Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron