Guadalajara 1937

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Guadalajara 1937

Postby pete AU » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:53 pm

Hi all

Now Stalingrad is finished and pending release im working on some Spanish Civil War scenarios. Its an interesting conflict and a challange to simulate.

The battle is Guadalajara and portrays operations by the CTV towards Guadalajara with the goal of taking Madrid. The unexpected resistance of the Republican Army caused the offensive to fail. Ultimately the Nationalists had to take the whole country first before they could say they were victorious.

Hemingway considered this to be one of the most important battles in military history - so its worth recreating.

1st challange: The role of the Italian Volunteers. The battle was lost when Dio Lo Vuole (1st CCNN) broke in disorganized retreat jepordizing the whole italian position - forcing a general retreat. The volunteer units were fragile and prone to panic and had to be constantly rotated into the line. Theoretically we'd make them red units, but... that would mean 3/4 of the italian army will be red (about 1/3 of the Nationalist side). Is this reasonable?

Is there a better way to simulate their moral falling and panic setting in as losses mount?
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Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:31 pm

Maybe you could "evolve" Italian units from regular to substandard on about March 18th and give them a surrender chance. The surrender would in this case not simulate an actual surrender, but the shattering of the Italian formation in question. From the limited reading I've done on the battle, it seems the rather optimistic Italian plan and the horrible weather did more to slow down the Italians early on than Republican forces.

I'm not sure whether the merge unit feature also works when you set units to merge units with units that don't start on the map. If that does work, there's also a way to ensure that the Italians don't become substandard if the Nationalist offensive is a success (Italian and Nationalist morale would remain high in that case).

1) Set Italian units that become substandard on ~March 18th to merge with a unit that is in an OMA. The resulting merger unit is the same as the one at the start, but that new one isn't scheduled to evolve into a substandard unit.

2) Place the OMA appearance hexes behind the Republican lines, at a point where the break through could be called a success.

3) If the hexes are captured, the Nationalist player can make merge units appear for all Italian formations that would normally become substandard.

4) The units (the Italian unit that would otherwise become substandard and the unit from the OMA) merge automatically and the result is a unit that won't beccome substandard.
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Postby jjdenver » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:50 pm

I know nothing about designing so take my comment as a brainstorm idea, not necessarily a good one. But could you make the Italian units very few steps (1 or 2) and give them several lives so that they shatter and come back multiple times? Also making them red units doesn't sound like such a bad idea.
Last edited by jjdenver on Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pete AU » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:19 am

Good (if complex) suggestion Ab.

Really need to think outside the box for this one.

Challange 2:

Tanks were committed in penny packets as company's. Never used without infantry and had a bigger impact than in WW2. Tank vs tank battles were uncommon and vs infantry tanks were often only disabled and returned to combat 70% of the time in a day or 2.

So, need to make it so only 1 tank cpy used per combat and ensure tanks are not used alone. In effect, the tank counter needs to be a combat modifier and not a 'combat' unit.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby Abwehr » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:49 am

There are a few ways you could do that, as I see it:

-You could make a "tank support" special attack, with the Italians getting 4 each turn and the Republicans 1 or 2 (an attack for each company, basically).

-You could add a tank combat unit with an attack and defensive strength of, say, 1 but with a tank shock modifier. That will force the player to use them in combination with infantry, the disadvantage is that more than 1 unit could be added to combat.

-Make them like the iron crosses/red banner units by attaching them to a higher HQ and giving them a low combat strength. The tanks would be abstracted into a shift modifier for the higher HQ's. Adding more than one to a battle would not improve the shift modifier through HQ bonus beyond what you got from the first unit I believe.

-You could give 1 or 2 Republican infantry units and 5 Italian infantry unit a tank shock, but that would again make it possible to use more than one in a battle.

-You could abstract them into 1 hex range artillery.
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Postby pete AU » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:21 am

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Italian Blackshirts look set to overrun the Republican army with massive artillery support. Why did the Nationalist offensive fail? Soon you will get the chance to replay the battle of Guadalajara and find out why.

Though the Nationalists won the war - they lost this battle.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby amartinsauto » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:13 am

Hello,

It has been long time since my last post but I am planning to come back into play and buy the last two titles (kharkov and DOTD2). One of the reasons to do it is the number of new scen Peter is doing and I thank him. One of them in which I am particular interested is this one: Guadalajara. Any clue Peter of the final release?

thx
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Postby pete AU » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:24 am

A few people have asked if I'm still about and active. Well, yes. However, my real life work is taking more time at the moment.

Currently i am playtesting Gaudalajara with one opponent and doing some work with SSG.

Happy new year all!

Pete
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby Abwehr » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:38 am

Good to hear from you Pete. Time can pass quickly, the last few years were more or less over before they really started, at least for me.
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Postby Noakesy » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:07 pm

pete AU wrote:A few people have asked if I'm still about and active. Well, yes. However, my real life work is taking more time at the moment.

Currently i am playtesting Gaudalajara with one opponent and doing some work with SSG.

Happy new year all!

Pete


Always good to hear, hope all is well, and happy new year to you too (or gluckliches neues jahr I think - just recently started German and other than asking where train stations are this is about my level... :wink: :D )
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Postby pete AU » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:51 pm

On an exciting note

This year my June holiday to cruise moscow to lenningrad is booked in with 3 days in moscow and 3 days in lenningrad - armoury museum here I come!
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby Noakesy » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:18 pm

pete AU wrote:On an exciting note

This year my June holiday to cruise moscow to lenningrad is booked in with 3 days in moscow and 3 days in lenningrad - armoury museum here I come!


You certainly have the interesting holidays! :shock: Did you get to the Falklands in the end? Doubtless time to review Doggie's looooooong moscow thread on here (again :wink: :D )
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Postby pete AU » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:55 pm

Yes - the falklands was great.

There alot of war detritus around. Got a one on one tour with a member of 42 commando - thanks to my wife who called the island ahead and arranged it (everyone else got tours with the civvy operators) - we got the gritty tour.

When you see the terrain it just looks like a defenders dream - hard to imagine trying to winkle the Argentines out. Our guide said they would have used napalm - but it was politically problematic - so they couldn't.

Really could have spent a week - would have loved to do the yomp as many visitors do.

Oh - and the penguins were fun - great 4WD trip to see them. Crazy terrain.

The people are really nice had the best egg and chip butty since I left the UK 30 years ago.

Chillie and Peru was amazing - nearly got zapped by lightning at the top of the sun gate a machu piccu - scared the crap out of me. No OH & S - shear drops if you make a bad step.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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