Operatsiya Uran

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Operatsiya Uran

Postby pete AU » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:22 pm

A topic in the 'chit chat' section on a Stalingrad article written by a member seems to be overlapping with this scenario design topic - I thought it best to initiate a post here to stimulate discussion on a scenario I'm working on lest the chit chat topic get off track.

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no prizes for guessing the location of this famous river section.

The scale is the same as Kharkov and will include the front from the 3rd Rom army to the 4th Rom Army and will incorporate enough map area to simulate Hoth's rescue attempt.
Last edited by pete AU on Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
History is an argument without end
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Postby Lysimachus » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:53 am

Hm, Stalingrad looks quite small. Are you sure you'll be able to fit in Chuikov's 62nd Army in there? Just prior to the Russian offensive, there was kind of a deadlock in the city as well, so we can't have the Germans amassing a load of troops and getting that -DR result which gives them the city. Maybe disabling retreats in urban hexes would be a good idea?
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Postby pete AU » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:21 am

The 62nd Army will have its AO east of the Volga and Stalingrad. All city hexes will be occupied by the Germans - the soviets will maintain their control by ZOC to represent their hold on the eastern portion of the city. Thus, there will be no concentration of Germans to take the city as a whole and thereby gamey activities to do so are eliminated. AO's will also stop the soviet player transferring the 62nd to active fronts.
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:07 am

Personally, I'm of the opinion that even in depleted state Sixth Army could've taken the city after the successful operations just prior to the start of the Soviet counteroffensive, but naturally priorities switched to stopping the Soviets after that. I'm not sure it would be gamey to try and take the entire city should the Soviet offensive stall at some point.

There was no strategic need for taking more of the city except for defensive purposes. It could be a viable Axis strategy: take the entire city and more or less fortify it with most of Sixth Army. Soviet attempts to retake it could make taking Budapest in Konrad look like a picnic, as instead of a major river in the middle of the city, there'd be a major river at the flanks.
Last edited by Abwehr on Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pete AU » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:19 am

One thing thats causing some design problems is the changes to the OOB after the encirclement. Units had to attach to different HQ when they were cut off for example. Since I don't know when or if Stalingrad will get cut off how do we get around this problem. It would be good if there was a mechanism to transfer units to other AO's if there are enough slots in the designated HQ - I think the old Atomic series allowed that for just such an occasion.

One thing I may ignore is the soviets changing all their divisional numbers in December.
History is an argument without end
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Postby Abwehr » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:23 am

There's no editor command for HQ's and units switching when a certain hex is captured, so using the alert unit system to introduce the new HQ's isn't really an option as the units wouldn't evolve and the new HQ's would essentially have no sub-formations.

I can think of two possible options:

-Change the HQ's on or around the date they were changed in the actual battle.
-Create a "HQ A and HQ B" for HQ's that have units in and outside the originally planned Soviet pocket. That way, HQ's won't need to be changed for those units. For the units in the pocket, the HQ's could be changed on or around the historical date.
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Postby pete AU » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:00 am

Yeah.
I will keep AG B and AG Don active for the whole scenario. I'll give units 1 life so if they are cut off in the wrong AO with no HQ they can come back in the correct AO when eliminated.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby Lysimachus » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:11 am

What, are you saying units destroyed in the kessel can be reconstituted?
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Postby pete AU » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:32 am

Not exactly. Like in Kharkov - a 1 step Cadre is created. If its part of the 6th army it will reform in the stalingrad AO if part of a different army it will reform in the appropriate AO - we can assume some men made it back to their units and not all AG reserves are committed.
History is an argument without end
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Postby Abwehr » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:41 am

Please give the Germans either more than 1 reconstitution OMA, or at the least not one OMA with the arrival hexes more or less next to eachother. The annoyance the Smolensk OMA can be for the Soviets in ATD2 is something that should be avoided when possible.
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Postby Robjess » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:38 pm

Operation Uranus - I have a feeling this scenario is going to stink!

[Yes, I came out of retirement for a lame joke like that]..

.. As you were..
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Postby Noakesy » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:51 pm

Robjess wrote:Operation Uranus - I have a feeling this scenario is going to stink!
[Yes, I came out of retirement for a lame joke like that]..
.. As you were..


Outrageous :wink: :D
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Postby pete AU » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:24 pm

Hmm,
In the interests less butt jokes I'll rename the thread Operatsiya Uran - :)
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby Noakesy » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:49 am

pete AU wrote:Hmm,
In the interests less butt jokes I'll rename the thread Operatsiya Uran - :)


Oh boo, comedy through the ages has been based on such peurile subject matter, and somethingthat gets Robjess out of retirement (albeit briefly) has to be worthwhile :wink: :D. However, given all the hard work you put into these things I don't blame you.
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Postby pete AU » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:46 am

Northern Exposure!
The Romanian 3rd Army vs the Soviet 1st Gd, 5th Tank, 21st and 65th Armies. Ust Medvedichy opens Perelazovsky then onto Kalach.

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History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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