Napoleonic Kharkov

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Napoleonic Kharkov

Postby pete AU » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:29 pm

I'm currently tinkering with a napoleonic/american civil war playset. Got started on Borodino last year, but gave up due to design problems.

Most issues seem to be resolvable with the Kharkov engine so I may take up the banner for this again.

Just wanted to guage how many people may be interested in this.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby Joe » Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:51 pm

To reproduce Pickett's charge, or to reproduce the attack of and the defeat of Napoleon's guard at Waterloo, you would need to:

Each counter has the ability to use indirect fire - just like the armoured units in Battlefront. Then lines of infantry can fire at each other.

Let each infantry counter represent a company - 4 of these stacked together would then represent a Square - and beat off the cavalary.

A company would be 4 steps representing each of the 4 platoons of the time.

Let each hex represent 100 meters and let each turn represent 20 mins.

Infantry can then march, in formation about 500 meters per turn. and a 10 hour battle takes 30 turns.

Waterloo lasted from 11am to dusk.

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Last edited by Joe on Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JSS » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:09 pm

The ACW stuff sounds very interesting! Imagine there's some very nice possibilities here :)
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Postby Noakesy » Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:11 pm

Not sure how well it would work. I recall our Crimea games which were good, and you did some other non WWII engagements (and Robjess did Gallipoli too of course). I think of SSG games as top-notch boardgames, and there are a number of Waterloo type games, so no reason why it wouldn't work. Your challenges would probably be as you suggest (e.g. scale, consistency and then things like melee, morale and so on).
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Postby pete AU » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:18 am

I have found making cavalry and infantry separate major countries in the setup allows you to prevent them operating together. This can allow me to impose similar restrictions to tradition board wargames covering the era. Ie: Inf/cav not stacking together or using 'combined arms'. I think I can impose a 1 unit stacking limit for cav and 4 for inf Bn's.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby pete AU » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:57 pm

Ok
essentially this ones ready to playtest.
I need a volounteer that knows the editors capabilities well and has played napoleonic style hex boardgames to playtest this.
Also, downloads are via rapidshare, which is free, but can take a while to get the download.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby pete AU » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:54 pm

Borodino 1812.
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A file is attached for those wanting a better view

Cheers
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History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby pete AU » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:36 am

OK
so this is probably not the best forum to pick up a playtester for a Napoleonic game, so the offers still out there.

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History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby Anguille » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:51 am

Looks nice...but i don't have Kharkov yet and have only little knowledge about editors.
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Postby Abwehr » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:08 am

Hmm, missed that post.

I would be happy to playtest it for you (unless you've grown tired of my comments on Konrad :wink: ), although I'd probably focus more on whether it should play as the editor indicates it should play than on the Napoleonic history part. I'm not a Napoleonic history expert.
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Postby pete AU » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:15 am

OK Abwher

I might win a few arguments on this one eh :wink:

However, Iim just uploading konrad (special edit) just for you - so you'll be playtesting that first off.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby pete AU » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:20 am

Anguille wrote:Looks nice...but i don't have Kharkov yet and have only little knowledge about editors.


Buy it mate - you know you want to.

I doubt SSG will get into this area officially any time soon and I'm only editing in SSG's latest creation so you'll need Kharkov. If Borodino is successful i'll do Gettysburg, however, no promises.
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby jjdenver » Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:04 am

I'd help to playtest and have experience w/ Napoleonics, and have played a couple of Borodino boardgames. But I don't know anything about the editor.
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Postby pete AU » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:43 am

Hi jjdenver

sorry I hadn't replied - I've been a bit busy with Konrad and hadn't checked this thread - assuming it was dead in the water

I will pm you soon
History is an argument without end
Projects - Iskra (available to download), Stalingrad Pocket (ver101 finished and available to download), Guadalcanal (map done), Guadalajara (playtesting - volounteers?), Napoleonic Borodino (volounteers?)
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Postby jjdenver » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:31 pm

Pete,

As requested am posting observations from playtest game. Feel free to ignore or use all as you think best.

I tried to follow the basic historical French advance. Guard is in reserve, most of I corp is advancing on the Fleches(part of the advance through the woods), III corp advancing in the center, IV corp advancing on Borodino, VIII corp advancing into reserve position behind I corp. Guard stayed in place other than Vistula Legion which I know was committed against either the Fleches or Utitsa.

Q: Was the guard artillery used to bombard Fleches or Raevski redoubt?

Q: French 11th Div staff is named as 10th Div staff - is this intentional?

Q: Should artillery require setup if not horse artillery?

Note: artillery very deadly in the advance as it can move then shoot - even heavy foot artillery.

Note: The lack of division/corp integrity bonus might be a problem because I notice as I advance on turn 2 that there is a tendency to start to spread out the divisions over a wide area to fit this turn's needs rather than holding them together for long term bonuses. In particular I'm noticing this with I corp advance as some units of divisions/corps are swinging north of the forest while others are moving more toward Utitsa.

Note: While reading about the battle I read that Russian 3rd division was considered the model division for the Russian army and it's best regular division. It was the best Russian division in army exercises the previous year. It also performed well during the battle, retaking I think the Raevski redoubt.

Note: I read through about a dozen web sites. The best and most detailed for the battle were:
http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/Borod ... ki_Redoubt
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/ri ... boro1.html
http://academics.hamilton.edu/russian/h ... dpeace/vb/

Note: Shoot and scoot tactics for artillery (i.e. move forward a couple hexes, shoot, then move back several hexes to avoid counterfire) is maybe not realistic for artillery

Note: Borodino seems very tough to attack due to movement penalties and very difficult terrain. I think that I got quite lucky with artillery fire and will take it on turn 4. However if the Russians are allowed to move more units into Borodino it could become a quite impregnable fortress very quickly.
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