Budapest 1945 - Konrad

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Postby Talos » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:03 am

pete AU wrote:Considering Cadre for regimental sized infantry units and above now the AI is ripping through the soviets. would be interested to know wht players think of the Cadre system in Kharkov.


In Kharkov its essential for the Axis (German, the Romanians do not really matter) forces. Without it and a good couple of Soviets turns there will not be enough troops to hold the line in various places. A 1 step units dugin in good terrain and maybe stacked with some non combat units can hold against up most attacks or force a really major commitment of resources normally when there other better things to do.
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Postby Noakesy » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:32 am

pete AU wrote:Considering Cadre for regimental sized infantry units and above now the AI is ripping through the soviets. would be interested to know wht players think of the Cadre system in Kharkov.


I think it is an interesting concept but would question it's historical parallels (if you know what I mean). I appreciate these games are in many ways 'abstract', but I can't quite figure a panzer regiment getting anihilated in the field, and (in certain cases) within a number of hours it's re-appearing in it's new depleted form on the battlefield periphery. I know it's probably meant to represent greater German flexibiltiy and operational effectiveness and 'nous', but I'm not sure that within the time-scale of most of the games we play that it really makes sense. Just my two-penneth :wink: :D
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Postby Roger Keating » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:37 am

Being destroyed on the field generally meant taking about 30% casualties and being unable to function effectively as a fighting unit, not that all the material and men had been destroyed by enemy forces, even if this did happen from time to time, a feature we represent by the surrender mechanic.

It is hard to get a realistic set of rules to cover an historical action so we must work with contraints.

Ian and Gregor are better at arguing these points as I am 'only a programmer' but each feature always goes through a great deal of discussion and manipulation.
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Postby Noakesy » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:57 pm

Roger Keating wrote:It is hard to get a realistic set of rules to cover an historical action so we must work with contraints. Ian and Gregor are better at arguing these points as I am 'only a programmer' but each feature always goes through a great deal of discussion and manipulation.


Don't worry about this from my perspective, I 100% understand each game is slightly abstract, and appreciate the work that must go into its development. I guess I agree with your concept, I'm sure that happened, it's more the fact that this reconstitution happens within hours or days (again, within the constraints of the timescales of the games). I can see if you made changes to this in the kharkov scenario it would seriously imbalance it! :D
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:59 pm

Only the SS would be getting anything resembling a suitable number of replacements at this stage in the war, so I'm not too sure whether units should be returning as cadres. Perhaps the medium tank battalions could return as cadres. You probably won't be able to refit it completely, so the cadres would represent whatever's left of the battalion's armour.

There are plenty of units in the scenario currently, so losing a few won't hurt that much (except for the quality units), especially with the special VP settings.
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Postby kondor999 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:24 pm

I'd just like to chime in and say how excited I am that Konrad is apparently getting the SSG treatment!

Thanks so much you guys for keeping the flame lit, and maybe I'll see you in Buda, if not Pest :wink:
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Postby pete AU » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:51 pm

Currently close to release.
There are many complex ao's. The 2 player game is essentially done and i'm enjoying the playtesting at the moment. The ai is very time consuming and hard to get right , but I'm getting there. Roger is planning some changes to coincide with atd, and I want to incorporate some of these, so hopfully I'll release around atd time.
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Postby Roger Keating » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:57 pm

I almost made it to Buda and Pest but was held up by some region problems in the HQs. Peter has really done a spectacular job on this title and I look forward to it being released.

It also shows to me that many of the concepts in scenario design are not that far distant from magic and it requires a lot of effort to get it right.

The best feature of this is the fight by both sides .. it is not simply attack and defend but one of position and strategy. My lack of historical knowledge made it a surprise with so many Rumanians on the Soviet side but I have since caught up with events and the way the Rumanian Army enthusiastically joined the Soviets at the end of the war.
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Postby Noakesy » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:18 pm

Roger Keating wrote:Peter has really done a spectacular job on this title and I look forward to it being released.


Agreed, I've only played against Pete as Fritz and find that my initial enthusiasm as the panzers cut their way to budapest is abruptly squashed as they start to take a real pounding. Great scenario.
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:00 pm

I still hope the way the VP's are balanced will counter a Soviet tactical withdrawal strategy, as it's still difficult to dig them out of -2 indirect fire modifier hexes, especially with rugged hexsides.

Holding Budapest will provide a very tough challenge for the Axis player, though, it's really a quality piece of trying to do as much as possible with a motley of some more, some less reliable units.
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Postby Talos » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:20 am

Looking forward to this and ATD as Kharkov is starting to get a bit stale. Pete if you want another play tester for this let me know.
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Postby kondor999 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:07 pm

Well now I'm really excited! Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to get the AI right. My life as a physician is far too chaotic to allow PBEM or even a normal life lol.

I know it's probably frustrating as hell to wrestle with the AI setup, but it really benefits a lot of us out here - and we really do appreciate it.

Lastly, I think you guys should - at least - set up a Paypal donation site so that we can compensate you for your time and work. Personally, I think you should charge for the download, but I realize that might be controversial or have legal issues. Still, please consider the Paypal thing. I'd gladly pay $50 for a good Konrad scenario. There are so few wargaming companies left, we've got to support each other strongly.
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Postby pete AU » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:45 am

kondor999 wrote:Well now I'm really excited! Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to get the AI right. My life as a physician is far too chaotic to allow PBEM or even a normal life lol.

I know it's probably frustrating as hell to wrestle with the AI setup, but it really benefits a lot of us out here - and we really do appreciate it.

Lastly, I think you guys should - at least - set up a Paypal donation site so that we can compensate you for your time and work. Personally, I think you should charge for the download, but I realize that might be controversial or have legal issues. Still, please consider the Paypal thing. I'd gladly pay $50 for a good Konrad scenario. There are so few wargaming companies left, we've got to support each other strongly.


Thankyou for your positive words.
I like the idea of somone depositing $50 into my account, it all helps buy research materials. Konrad alone has cost me about $300 in that department alone already. Not that I mind - I love the research, I'm lucky to be able to make the games i like to play the way I like to play them. At the end of the day the challange of the game design is what I enjoy. The great thing about SSG is you get to play with the whole editor - not just an interface. The game style is classic, you know whats happening with odds and dice rolls, it has to be the best way of hex wargaming today. However, because you get the whole editor, you have to do the whole game - it can be daunting.
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Postby Malak » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:32 am

That is funny you are talking about that. Last time, I was asking myself how SSG is surviving with the financial crisis.

And, I was imagining something like an Apple store, called it SSG store, where user created scenario could be downloaded. At each download, SSG is credited of 70% of the amount and the scenario designer 30%. :mrgreen:

But, honestly, I would prefer to keep them free. If I am investing my time to create a scenario, this is not for money. This is because I like the engine and because the more scenarios created; the more people will be interested to buy the game engine. And, at the end, SSG will continue to please us, what is our entire goal.

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Postby kondor999 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:25 am

I just feel guilty about getting these products of immense time and energy for free, while they continue to pump out mindless FPS's like there's no tomorrow and are raking in big $.

Frankly, it really annoys me.

Anyway, what I would suggest is just having a paypal donation link next to each scenario. You could pay whatever your conscience dictates.

A little OT, but I also told the guys over at Eagle Dynamics that they are charging way too little for their KA-50 simulator, and not including a printed manual to save costs. What all these companies should do is charge far more, and use a portion of that to supply printed manuals, map, keycharts, etc. Look at the wonderful documentation that came in games like Jane's F-15 or Longbow 2 and you'll see what I mean.

Personally, if a wargame came with a printed manual and maps (that were decent quality), I'd happily pay $100 for it. I believe that would easily cover the cost of materials and allow a greater profit for each unit sold.

Wargaming and Flight sim publishers don't seem to understand their market very well in the sense that they don't take advantage of the fact that most of us are older, smarter and richer than the teens who are salivating over the next iteration of whatever FPS has caught their (fleeting) attention.
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