Budapest 1945 - Konrad

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Budapest 1945 - Konrad

Postby pete AU » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:49 am

A bit of fun. My 1st Kharkov scenario should be finished soon, however, I'm off on a cruise mid october - so the scenario may be delayed.

Guess the scenario (location, year, operation).
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Last edited by pete AU on Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Abwehr » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:21 am

That grey/black area that looks like a pile of rubble at this resolution, is that a city?

I'll see if I can figure out what operation this will be about, although the map is very difficult to "read" at this resolution.
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Postby pete AU » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:29 am

Yes - a big pile of rubble is correct. It was a city.

Hint - East is top of the map.
Scale 1 hex = 2 miles
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Postby Graf Starhemberg » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:38 am

Budapest / 1945 / Konrad III

...now that would be cool... :D
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Postby Abwehr » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:53 am

Budapest was my first guess too, but there's no island in the river and the southern part of the city on the map (if east is top, the western part would be Buda) doesn't seem to be wooded or hilly enough, but that could be because the city rubble hexes don't display height or vegetation. However, the flow of the river is more or less a precise match.

I was thinking that the lake in the same screenshot as the city could be Lake Velence, east of Székesfehérvár, and the larger mass of water visible on the map display the north-eastern reaches of Lake Balaton.

Perhaps it's all wishful thinking, a Konrad (I, II or III) or Frühlingserwachen scenario would be awesome.
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Postby von Jaeger » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:13 am

Definitely Budapest, 1945, Konrad I, II and III. These operations rather than the initial Russian encirclement in late 44 or there'd be more of the map to the East?

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Postby Abwehr » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:31 am

The city does seem to be hugging the edge of the map, making any deep encirclement of the Soviet attackers by the incoming German forces very difficult.

I guess the trick will be to catch the Soviet troops between the hammer (advancing German forces) and the anvil (Budapest garrison), or bump Soviet armoured forces into the Danube, which they probably can't cross.

If it's Konrad, I'm not sure why the map is brown-ish. It was still snowing then, the mud was much more of a problem in March than in January. Die Deutsche Wochenschau about Konrad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J_-P8QIg8w Pete AU also stated that it "was" a city. During the Konrads, large parts of Budapest would still be standing, having been under siege for "only" two to three weeks. The city would not be flattened yet.

Also, if it's Konrad, it's odd that the map covers quite a bit of south-central Hungary and western Hungary. The first two Konrad operations came in from the north-west of Budapest. The last one from the south, but not the deep south. There would be no need to display Lake Balaton on the map for any of the Konrads. Unternehmen Frühlingserwachen would be hugging the edge of the map too at the start, starting in the lower part of the map. Army Group E wouldn't be on the map, eventually ending up a few dozen hexes to the right of the edge of the map on the right.

The map could, of course, cover both operations, but not the start of the Konrad operations as the initial frontline would be to the left of the map edge on the left or possibly just within the map boundaries.
Last edited by Abwehr on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pete AU » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:07 am

Well done

Its Budapest 1945

Jan 1 to Jan 26 - operation Konrad.

Stalingrad of the SS.

To my knowledge this it the first time we see 8th SS Florian Geyer in an SSG title, my interest in the operation was sparked by this - what the hell were cavalry doing defending a city in a static position.

General der Kavallerie Gustav Harteneck, commander of I Kavallerie-korps:::
'While the Corps was still in the process of being transferred, we were once again ordered to take up stationary positions, to our great disappointment. The cavalry divisions of the Waffen-SS were fighting in the metropolis of Budapest. Every cavalryman knows that no good could come of that, and, as it turned out, nothing did. The SS divisions were encircled ... My Cavalry Corps launched a night attack in an attempt to relieve them, but it was too late, and the Russian forces were too powerful. Although we managed to fight out way to the city limits, only 100 or so cavalrymen, under the command of the famous rider Staff Colonel von Mitzlaff, were able to break through to us. The subsequent battles, in the course of which my Corps was under the command of 6th SS Panzer Army, might have turned out quite differently had the two SS cavalry divisions been deployed to full advantage as cavalry divisions, instead of being ordered to hold Budapest'.
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Postby pete AU » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:21 am

The map is brown for good weather - the badweather map has a snow colour. I wanted to differentiate heavy snow turns.

Laka Balaton is the anchor for hungarian II Corps.

IVss Panzer is facing the 31st Guards to the North (left of map) against the Danube. III panzer and I Kav in the middle. Don't worry, everyone fits on the map.
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Postby Abwehr » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:25 am

The SS cavalry units were by far the least combat worthy part of the Waffen SS throughout most of the war. The main feat of the 8th SS was being destroyed in Budapest. It spend the majority of its roughly 2.5 years of service on anti-partisan duty, or taking punches during the Soviet 1943 offensives. The combat value of a SS cavalry division in terms of cavalry manpower was quite a bit lower than that found in a typical Soviet Guards cavalry unit by the time of this scenario.

The Soviets kept developing their cavalry doctrines to make them more or less functional in modern war. The Heer dropped most if its cavalry divisions early on, or stopped using them in combat after 1942 with the exception of Cossack units. The Waffen SS seems to have thought that having an anachronistic component of questionable combat worth in their otherwise modern branch would be a good idea.

It should be interesting to play with a SS unit that isn't Death incarnate when it comes to dealing with Soviet units.

As an aside: any chance of a Frühlingserwachen scenario using the same map?
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Postby pete AU » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:06 am

It could be done. The map will cover the area.
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Postby Noakesy » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:54 pm

Very smart. I've a book about this that I've never read (think I bought it on Sorceror's recommendation, but just not got around to it). :D
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Postby pete AU » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:16 pm

whats the book mate?
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Postby Rook » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:17 pm

Looks great Pete!

How many turns will the scenario be?
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Postby Noakesy » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:47 pm

Here you go Pete - surprisingly called "Battle for Budapest - 100 days in WWII". It's very detailed, and I think Sorceror wrote a review of it in the forum somewhere, I'll go and have a look. :D

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Budapest ... 785&sr=8-1
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