Editor abilities

Got an interesting idea about a new scenario design? ...or maybe you just need some help with the Scenario Editor; this is the place!

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Editor abilities

Postby Malak » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:47 am

First, I would like to thank you, SSG team, for providing the AO and the AI tutorials. I have started playing with the editor creating two formations. And, I was very pleased yesterday to see the first one attacking the second one with the instructions I gave it in the editor. Your AI tutorial is very helpful so, again, a BIG THANK YOU. :D

Now, I am just at the beginning and I am trying to see how to answer some points:

1. I have perhaps incorrectly noticed that once a map is created, I do not have the ability to resize it. May be I have not looked carefully but is there a way to append an existing map and, for example, insert some lines or columns at top / bottom / left / right side of a map?

2. I was thinking of a scenario where one killed unit is back on map since it has more than one life but historically this unit was refitted with another model of tank. Is there a way for me to change the counter of this unit after it has been killed?

3. I have about the same question for HQ to simulate a killed general or a sacked general and the fact the attributes of the HQ are changing accordingly. For this one, I suppose I could remove the old HQ at the right given turn and introduce the new one but will it be reflected on the order of battle?

4. Regarding AI, if I create an opportunity card, executed at first phase of a given turn, and specified “At end” value in the “Terminate Turn” parameter. I have understood that the units that have executed this opportunity card won’t be used for another opportunity card in the same turn. However, I am wondering if they will still be available in this turn for an AI operation, pending the fact, they still have some movement points of course.

5. Regarding mystery variants, is there a way to implement a variant that will change the start date of a scenario?

Thanks in advance for your assistance
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Postby Roger Keating » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:45 am

I think this is one for me to answer ...

1) No .. a map can never be changed once it is created, at least by the editor or by anyone other than myself. It is a tricky procedure and I have carried it out on accasion when the need arises. Market Garden was expanded when the original did not quite fit the scenario we were trying to get to. The problem is that once the map is resized basically all other elements have to be redone. The AI is generally useless and has to be thrown away. It really must be done early on in a sceanrio design and I would always listen to someone who wanted it done. As it takes several hours to do it would have to be a good reason but I can be approached.

2) This is an evolving unit, and will work on 're-lifed' units. It just doesn't work on dead units.

3) Again evolving units are the only way to do this and require a specific turn to be specified. We have looked at making this an event based processed but it introduces a lot of problems and so far have not proceeded with it.

4) Your questions are getting trickier. I believe the situation is as you describe and a brief look at the code says that is the case. It refers to opportunity cards only. However the code would require about an hours examination to unwire the whole process so I will leave it here for the moment.

5) A variant can affect units and formations at the current time. This required about a months programming effort and has the effect of turning the program into a true database. The variant process could be expaned to include a number of other structures .. objectives, supply and even certain map features but it would all take a great deal of time. What we have done is used the best 'bang for the buck' approach and will wait till I have the free time to take this further.

It is good to see that you are delving into the editor. It is not an easy process and requires a great deal of time and effort. I will always be here to answer questions of the type you have presented. You just have to be ready to make the scenario. If there are problems in your current scenario then I will probably have to see it to go further so will provide details etc. to get it to me. I just hope that the tutorials are good enough to do 90% of the work and the forums can provide the last bits.
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Postby Malak » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:07 am

Thanks a lot Roger. For point number 4, don’t worry I will perform a test. And, I will try to be careful with map size. I do think the editor is not so complicated. But, you are right I think it takes time. The fact is I want to try. :D
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Postby Roger Keating » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:56 am

Stock up on beer .. it is always recommended to anyone who considers developing scenarios. If you want to know which is best then there will be a great deal of advice available in this forum.
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Postby Malak » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:02 am

All right, couple of beers later :D, I have two more questions:

1. Regarding the order of battle, for one given country, do I need to build one unique tree? For example, Russian has two fronts attacking one German army. May I build two trees, one for each front? Or, do I need to add a STAVKA upper to these two fronts even if this HQ will never show up on the battlefield?

Perhaps an alternative possible would be to create two countries, each time Russian.

2. Also, that is for future, would it be possible to add a minor enhancement to the editor by adding a cut function, with little scissors, to the country data window like what exists for units, supply or formation windows?


Thanks for your help
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Postby Roger Keating » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:28 am

2) In the Country Data window you can simply specify 'no side defined' and it will not show up. There is no way to delete a country as you can other data fields as the number is absolute. I felt that there was little need to offer a clear function and there has never been a call for it, which dictates a lot of what I do in the editor.

1) is a bit more difficult. This is really an OB question that Gregor or Ian should answer, or any other scenario designer. It is always a problem establishing the way a force in a battle will be split up and as it relates to a specific scenario it is not really an editor question. Put simply ... I just don't know.
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Postby Chris Merchant » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:54 am

I think it would probably be ok to create 2 front HQ's, with subordinate formations assigned to each, in the same country database without the need for reference to a higher formation for either. The trick comes trying to work out how to best fit your formations within the formation editor in the game - suggest you write out your OOBs as a chart to visualise this prior to creating your units and assigning formations. Also take a look at the Kharkov scenario in the editor - that has some good clues how to build formations.

cheers


Malak wrote:All right, couple of beers later :D, I have two more questions:

1. Regarding the order of battle, for one given country, do I need to build one unique tree? For example, Russian has two fronts attacking one German army. May I build two trees, one for each front? Or, do I need to add a STAVKA upper to these two fronts even if this HQ will never show up on the battlefield?
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Postby Gregor Whiley » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:58 pm

Malak wrote:All right, couple of beers later :D, I have two more questions:

1. Regarding the order of battle, for one given country, do I need to build one unique tree? For example, Russian has two fronts attacking one German army. May I build two trees, one for each front? Or, do I need to add a STAVKA upper to these two fronts even if this HQ will never show up on the battlefield?

Perhaps an alternative possible would be to create two countries, each time Russian.

2. Also, that is for future, would it be possible to add a minor enhancement to the editor by adding a cut function, with little scissors, to the country data window like what exists for units, supply or formation windows?


Thanks for your help


The Kharkov scenario has two Soviet Fronts, Southwestern and Southern, with no STAVKA so its easy to create your scenario with Fronts being the highest level Soviet formation.

On the other hand, the Germans at Kharkov have an Army Group South HQ, with a few units attached. AGS has a much larger AO than any of its subordinates, so assets and formations attached to AGS will have the greatest flexibility. This is often a good way to treat reinforcements that come in half way through a battle. Assigning them to a higher HQ with a large AO means the player can commit them where they are needed, while the units that started the game remain constrained by their formation's AOs.

It can also be a good spot for assigning rare units like pontoons, or super heavy artillery. You're not sure where they will be needed, giving them to a high level HQ, (assuming it has a very large AO), solves that problem.

I don't see the need for creating two countries, both Russian, it will interfere with stuff like airstrikes and interdiction and isn't really necessary.

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Postby Malak » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:35 am

Thanks for the tip Gregor, I see that now in the Russian OOB of Kharkov scenario.

Roger Keating wrote:2) In the Country Data window you can simply specify 'no side defined' and it will not show up. There is no way to delete a country as you can other data fields as the number is absolute. I felt that there was little need to offer a clear function and there has never been a call for it, which dictates a lot of what I do in the editor.

Indeed, it is working like for OMA. Please forget this request.

I like this game. Music background is so nice that I am spending hours in the editor. 8)
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Postby Malak » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:35 am

Hi all,

Sorry but I have extracted the BMP files of the scenarioPics.xcr file but there is one BMP file that is missing. It is the Germany_Kharkov.bmp file. Is it possible for you to upload it in this topic on the forum ?

Thanks a lot
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Postby Chris Merchant » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:03 am

I've uploaded my scenario design files here

http://merchant.on.net/ScenarioDesign.zip (98mb)

this has a lot of files from user scenarios, it's useful when you're trying to locate the right unit patch, for instance.

cheers Chris
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Postby Robjess » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:16 pm

When I used to have free time (read: before I had a 2.5 year old and a 3 month old) I was going to (infact I started to do it!) put together and release a scenario designers kit. Which would have included the bmp files for each of the major countries with the more common unit types (ie: ARM, Inf, Mech Inf, ART, HQ etc) also created for each country..

Alas.. that was BC. (before child).. now Im lucky if i have time to take a crap alone!!
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Postby Chris Merchant » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:29 pm

... hehe Rob don't worry man, you'll get your life back in about 6 years...

Meanwhile, what I've posted above is Rob's kit plus a whole lot of extra bmps from other scens.

cheers
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Postby Robjess » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:42 pm

Chris Merchant wrote:Meanwhile, what I've posted above is Rob's kit plus a whole lot of extra bmps from other scens.


Arhh well done nice Chris :)
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Postby Malak » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:17 am

Chris Merchant wrote:I've uploaded my scenario design files here

http://merchant.on.net/ScenarioDesign.zip (98mb)

this has a lot of files from user scenarios, it's useful when you're trying to locate the right unit patch, for instance.

cheers Chris


Thank you so much Chris :mrgreen:
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