Playstyle Approach

Discussion relating to Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets

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Playstyle Approach

Postby StarMan99 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:44 pm

Is there a way to play Kharkov or other similar SSG games and win convincingly using a more inuitive approach than micro managing all the hexside combat odds.

In other words can you win just by using just what you see on the map and making your moves?
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Postby Robjess » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:47 pm

Older games in the series didnt have the same sort of information that is available now in terms of 'combat odds' and 'defensive odd's etc.. so yes it can be played that way.. in fact I think there is an option to turn those odds off so that you cant see them - or at least there used to be.

Its more challenging to play it that way. Many people refused to do it.
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Postby TTT » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:50 pm

I don't think you can play the game well without inspecting the hexes and seeing where the opponents weak points are. The combat and artillery advisor is merely a shortcut for that hard work. And with the Kharkov engine you also need to consider the possibility of losses through direct fire.

While I like to play the game with thinking in formations rather than combat odds (e.g. I like to use a complete inf and pz division for an attack or assign a cavalry corps to protect the southern flank), I suspect the combat odds approach is more successful. At least I have quite some difficulties to beat the AI in Kharkov so far (2 games played, one as Soviet, one as German vs the recommened Computer+ player).
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Re: Playstyle Approach

Postby JSS » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:02 am

StarMan99 wrote:Is there a way to play Kharkov or other similar SSG games and win convincingly using a more inuitive approach than micro managing all the hexside combat odds.

In other words can you win just by using just what you see on the map and making your moves?


If you fully understand the game mechanics (i.e. that attacking from more hex sides is generally good, effect of being dug in, etc...) then, yes, you can play and beat the AI...

Its not a given to win against the AI, especially if you don't use the combat advisor from time to time and don't use the artillery advisor.

If you're playing a PBEM game, then I expect you're at a real disadvantage if you don't try to get good odds/attacks organized using the advisors and hexside management.

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Re: Playstyle Approach

Postby Gregor Whiley » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:14 am

StarMan99 wrote:Is there a way to play Kharkov or other similar SSG games and win convincingly using a more inuitive approach than micro managing all the hexside combat odds.

In other words can you win just by using just what you see on the map and making your moves?


You could probably win against the AI by just allocating forces to a combat by formation, or however you liked, hitting the Max button in the combat screen and just accepting the result. We introduced discontinuous CRTs in Kharkov so the overall odds in many combats might well be the same.

The advantage that the min-maxers will have is that they will only be using those units actually needed for the combat, saving bullets on those units not needed. They will also guarantee to get the best tank or sapper shock bonuses available and in some combats they might get additional tactical shifts that your approach didn't provide.

Against the computer, this might not matter so much, against the best human players it certainly will.

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Postby El Toro » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:49 pm

I understand where you are coming from StarMan99 as I generally try to play like that. I usually have a map printed out beside me and scribbled notes for the different Corps - the AOs or a familiarity with the campaign help a lot. I don't use the combat/artillery advisors at all though I do look at odds/CRT when conducting attacks and genrally don't mix Corps. I love the DB system but I do tend to think something gets lost with the Min/Max way of playing. Obviously this intuitive approach wil probably not be successful playing pbem - human nature to 'win', but is very rewarding against the AI. However that said, I could not really ever say it will win convincingly!
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Postby The Red Baron » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:27 pm

El Toro,

Did you print the map from the game? If yes, how? Is there a way to print the entire map without suffering distortion or using too many sheets of paper?
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