Different types of shcok and how they apply

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Different types of shcok and how they apply

Postby J Campbell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:49 pm

Hi guys,

This might sound abit weird as I have every game in the series but here goes.

I was designing a very small scenario involving german parachute infantry assault on Holland. I was trying to determine their shock vaules offensive and defensive.

In Kharkov-there seems to be the following (please correct me if i am wrong):

1) Shock attack tank (values 1-3)
2) Shock attack sapper/eng (values 1-3)
3) shock attack Inf? (values (1-4) the 4 dots to the right of the att str?
represents formation Hq odds bonus-how exactly does that work?
4) anti-Shock def tank (values (1-3)
5) antishcock def antitank (values (1-3)
6 antischock Inf? (values 1-3)

These shock are the very small dots in the att and def box to the right of their respective values. Does the symbol-tank/antitank/eng/blank just describe the type of antishock the units use or is it more specific. do you require anti-tank or tank to neutralize tanks shock?

ps. sorry about the misspelled title-i am not the best typist.

thx,
john
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Postby Abwehr » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:28 am

Does the symbol-tank/antitank/eng/blank just describe the type of antishock the units use or is it more specific. do you require anti-tank or tank to neutralize tanks shock?


It's in the manual somewhere, how combined arms gets a certain bonus and what the counters are to various types of attacks, but I'm not sure about the exact formula.

I'm fairly sure that tank shock can be nullified by anti-tank or other tank shock, for example, but I might be wrong.

I'm not sure whether it's the shock value, but I noticed a "+1 infantry" icon in the unit description of units in the Kalach/R:MOB-redux scenario. That had me confused.
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Postby Chris Merchant » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:36 pm

P 66 of the manual summarises it all pretty well.

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Postby J Campbell » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:17 pm

okay. thanks chris. i'll double check the manual and see if it straightens everything out.
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Postby Carl Myers » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:18 am

3) shock attack Inf? (values (1-4) the 4 dots to the right of the att str?
represents formation Hq odds bonus-how exactly does that work?


Not a die shift shock value but a combat odds shift bonus from the unit's HQ.
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Re: Different types of shcok and how they apply

Postby Gregor Whiley » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:21 am

J Campbell wrote:Hi guys,

This might sound abit weird as I have every game in the series but here goes.

I was designing a very small scenario involving german parachute infantry assault on Holland. I was trying to determine their shock vaules offensive and defensive.

In Kharkov-there seems to be the following (please correct me if i am wrong):

1) Shock attack tank (values 1-3)
2) Shock attack sapper/eng (values 1-3)
3) shock attack Inf? (values (1-4) the 4 dots to the right of the att str?
represents formation Hq odds bonus-how exactly does that work?
4) anti-Shock def tank (values (1-3)
5) antishcock def antitank (values (1-3)
6 antischock Inf? (values 1-3)

These shock are the very small dots in the att and def box to the right of their respective values. Does the symbol-tank/antitank/eng/blank just describe the type of antishock the units use or is it more specific. do you require anti-tank or tank to neutralize tanks shock?

ps. sorry about the misspelled title-i am not the best typist.

thx,
john


John

Here is the excerpt from the manual

Units have a variety of Shock effects in attack and defense that are summarized here.

Armor Shock in attack is either Tank or Mechanized shown by an icon and a number of roundels from 1 to 4 on its Attack Bar.

Anti-Shock in defense can be Tank, Mechanized or Anti-Tank, shown by an icon and from 1 to 4 roundels in the Defense Bar.

In general, you compare the attacker’s Armor Shock to the Defender’s Anti-Shock to get a dice roll modifier, but there are specific rules for different types of confrontations.

- Tank or Mechanized Attack vs. Tank Defense: Maximum is +3 Minimum is –1 (i.e. inferior tanks vs. superior tanks can = a negative modifier)

- Tank or Mechanized Attack vs. Mechanized or Anti-Tank Defense: Maximum is +3 Minimum is 0 (i.e. no negative modifier)

- No Armor Shock vs. Mechanized Defense: Maximum is +0 Minimum is –1

(i.e. infantry only vs. combined arms = a negative modifier)

Sapper Shock is shown by an icon on the Attack Bar. The number of roundels next to the icon shows the plus to dice rolls against fortifications.

From what you have said about your scenario I would guess that your German infantry might rate either 0 or 1 as Anti-Tank Defense - the 1 would represent motivated troops using the somewhat improvised early war AT defences. This may be a moot point if the plucky Belgians don't have any tanks!

The paras who were trained specifically for the attacks on the Belgian fortifications should have a very high Sapper Shock rating.

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Postby Abwehr » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:29 pm

As to the topic of the scenario you're designing: I'd suggest giving some Dutch units an AT value of 1.

The ~386 47mm AT guns the Dutch had in May 1940 were basically left out of the Fall Gelb scenario.

It seems the guns were a reason for the Germans not to try a frontal armoured assault on the Grebbeline. The many PaG's at the Grebbeline were thus basically wasted there, only knocking out a few SS armoured cars whilst German armour took the southern approach to Fortress Holland.

It would be a good idea to either include a few Dutch AT units or give the units defending the Grebbeline/the eastern part of Fortress Holland an AT rating of 1.

Considering that the Fallschirmjaeger scattered all over the place and many of the planes carrying their heavier equipment were downed/crashed on a recently occupied (and soon lost again) Dutch airfield, and considering the armour of the French tanks, an AT rating of 1 for the Fallschirmjaeger would be fairly unrealistic and would probably also make any attack aimed at the Moerdijk bridges futile to begin with.
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Postby J Campbell » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:05 am

Hi Gregor,

thanks very much. that explains everything to a "T".

The main problem I'll have is figuring out the airdrop/airlanding stuff and how to incorporate it into the scenario. Before I input any numbers I'll post on the scenario design forum to gather input. I have the terrain stuff saved up and have started the underlayer map-the overlayer map needs to be done with photoshop or something i don't have.

I'll probably just do the 22nd luftlande assault near Rotterdam for now and if it works out will try to get some other for a collaborative effort for a full campaign one. Have to go to work now but will try to post some stuff tomorrow or later tonight if possible.
thanks,
john
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:21 am

Perhaps it would be better to place a reinforcement hex on a Dutch airfield near Rotterdam, as the 22nd Luftlande was not a real paratrooper unit and was only transported by the transport aircraft, which is one of the reasons why their losses were fairly high (Dutch AA guns shot down hundreds of transport aircraft trying to land on the numerous airfields, in the meadows, on the beaches and on a highway).
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Postby J Campbell » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi abwehr,

I'll probably have to set the reinforcement hex at ypenburg airfield. It'll have to be 2 hexes though so the 22nd can reinforce at 8 companies per turn.

I am going to move this over to the scenario desing thread.

thanks very much for all the input it will all be taken into consideration. any help or suggestions is welcome.
thx,
john
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Re: Different types of shcok and how they apply

Postby odoakr » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:57 pm

Gregor Whiley wrote:- Tank or Mechanized Attack vs. Tank Defense: Maximum is +3 Minimum is –1 (i.e. inferior tanks vs. superior tanks can = a negative modifier)


Hi guys,

Could someone please explain to me which tanks are considered inferior or superior? Where in the editor can I check this?
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Re: Different types of shcok and how they apply

Postby YappyRaccoon » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:42 am

I think forest and woods reduce shock. I'm not sure cause I don't know about the game mechanics. I always just get stuck in and enjoy the combat.

I wonder if you want to increase your attack shock, do you have to add tanks to each attacking stack like in the Italy and Normandy games, or just stack tanks to attack together?
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