Beginners Editor frustration

Got an interesting idea about a new scenario design? ...or maybe you just need some help with the Scenario Editor; this is the place!

Moderators: AlexS, Run5 Staff, SSG Staff

Beginners Editor frustration

Postby delusan » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:14 am

Trying to follow the tutorial titled "Creating new Battle Set and a New Map" After steps 1 and 2 I have a black map with buttons at the bottom. Tutorial Step 3 - "Click on Edit Terrain". There is no "Edit Terrain". There is an "All map functions" button. Okay Ill click that. I have a black map with "Map Data", Build Terrain", "Build Map", "Switch Ground", "Go Back" on it. Okay Ill click "Terrain". Now I have an empty palette on the right side of the screen. I can edit the data (Terrain name", etc), but there is no picture of clear terrain - only a gray hex. In fact theyre ALL gray hexes. I can name them clear, woods, desert, etc., but how/where do i get the actual clear terrain graphic for the hex? Do I have to make my own terrain graphics? I notice there are other graphics for rivers, roads etc. I am completely lost. If someone could just get me started with placing some simple terrain on the map, I would try like hell to figure out the next step on my own. Or perhaps someone knows of a simpler, more basic tutorial for beginners like me? The game itself is fascinating! I really want to try my hand at the editor. Please help.
delusan
Private
Private
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:40 am

Postby delusan » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:01 am

Ive never before been on a forum where nobody offers any help whatsoever. Very interesting.
delusan
Private
Private
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:40 am

Postby Roger Keating » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:52 am

I think the questions you are asking are basically a whole tutorial about starting the game creation process.

They all have answers but I feel that any one answer would only produce more questions, and may not help a great deal. There is a lot to learn about the graphics display and data entry for creating even a simple scenario.

It would be nice if it could be made easier but with the changes the editor goes through and the limited number of people who have actually perserved through the process of creating a scenario any time spent on expanding the tutorial process has seemed less important to getting good scenarios out so they could be played. With the limited number of people within SSG it is hard to satisfy all the things that we would lie to do.

That aside, we are still working on tutorials for the editor and, more importantly, the AI system so that more people may give it a try.

Can I suggest that you send me a private post with a few questions that you would like answered now, rather than getting an overview of the whole design process, and I will see what can be done to get you into it.

It should be pointed out though, the graphics in the game are all user built and building a scenario means coming up with terrain graphics (maps) and other pictures as they often do not exist in any of our scenarios.

I hope this helps ..
User avatar
Roger Keating
SSG
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby delusan » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:16 am

But Roger, if I send you a PRIVATE message with my questions, Im going to post your reply here anyway because IT MIGHT HELP OTHERS LEARN TO USE THE EDITOR. You see - thats the whole idea. What's the big secret?
delusan
Private
Private
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:40 am

Postby Roger Keating » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:20 am

There are no big secrets in the system, only a lot of individual problems that I have found that I can solve by dealing with through my private email address which is far more convenient for me than this forum.

I check my email 20+ times a day, while this forum is checked once. I can also easily send attachments through my private system while the forum is difficult to use in this respect.

There are few secrets in the system and I have no desire to keep discussion private and anyone who deals with me in this way can post here and tell of their experiences.

But, to repeat my previous request, if you are serious about learning the editor then you will need to have specific questions answered relating to the scenario you are developing. I will need a copy of this scenario to answer your questions and give advice of where to go next. To start this process we will need to set up some communication protocols. Awaiting your answer ....
User avatar
Roger Keating
SSG
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby delusan » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:23 pm

With no disrespect ... Im not certain if youre missing the point or more likely my question was unclear. What I am saying is that I cant ask you a specific question because I DONT KNOW HOW TO START BUILDING A SCENARIO. You see, SSG did not provide an editor tutorial with this $60 game. They advertise it as containing a full editor, but dont tell you how to use it. And you, Roger, are telling me that you can teach me to swim - if I ask you one question at a time via private email.
As I believe that other gamers here might enjoy building scenarios for their own pleasure, and this is the forum for disemination of information on the game, this would be one place to provide a tutorial for the editor. Another logical place would be in the manual. If that had been done, all this discussion could be avoided. But let us assume you have put a gun to my head and forced me to ask a question by private email (for your convenience, not us gamers). I guess that question would be "How do I make a map?".
By the way, I AM serious about learning how to use the editor. Can you tell?
delusan
Private
Private
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:40 am

Postby Gregor Whiley » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:05 am

The person you need to be aiming the gun at is me. Roger is a superb programmer but his writing skills are bang on the average for programmers, which is why I get the job.

We have made a big effort on the documentation front, as evidenced by the recent release of the new documentation for AOs and AI. I'm working on another project at the moment (please remember that there's only three of us available full time to work on anything at all). When I get through that I'll look at doing some extra Editor work, starting with map creation.

So what Roger is offering is first aid, and I'm offering a longer term solution, which I will get to as soon as I can.

Gregor
Gregor Whiley
Vice President, SSG
www.ssg.com.au
User avatar
Gregor Whiley
SSG
 
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:55 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby delusan » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:28 am

Is there anyone out there that is willing to provide a step-by-step map building lesson on the forum? SSG is too busy.
delusan
Private
Private
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:40 am

Postby Joe » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:17 am

delusan wrote:Is there anyone out there that is willing to provide a step-by-step map building lesson on the forum? SSG is too busy.


Lots are willing but nobody knows how to!

You could begin by taking a current scenario, copy to a new folder and then edit it.

-\
Joe
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1650
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:32 pm

Postby delusan » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:26 am

Wait a minute!!! There are 3 guys at SSG according to Gregor (the SSG VP). Roger(the SSG programmer) is apparently lacking in verbal skills according to Gregor(the SSG VP). Gregor (the SSG VP) says he is too busy right now. How about the SSG PRESIDENT (whoever she is)! Maybe THE PRESIDENT can write us a tutorial. I'll ask!
Kinda reminds me of a crowd of peasants approaching the Kings castle to beg for bread scraps.
delusan
Private
Private
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:40 am

Postby Roger Keating » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:41 am

As a final comment to this thread I would just like to state that I have helped a number of people who have sought help to create scenarios. It is a hard task to complete the initial work but gets easier when you understand the system. Only a few ever attempt to do this as the work involved is not easy and it takes considerable time, research and ability. A lot of this must be carried out by experimentation by modifying current scenarios and seeking advice.

Asking for your prayers to be answered is probably not going to do it. We are currently preparing tutorials about a number of the editor features but it is an on going project and must be fitted in within the context of running a company that must produce games to generate income. I have just finished the re writing of the unknown units section to make it simpler and easier to use. While this feature will not be apparent to 99% of our audience it will be a feature that should delight the scenario designers out there. I can't, however, spend all my time making the editor easier to use and am getting back to the task of completing Across the Denpr, a game I am enjoying in the testing phase as I attempt to stop the advancing Axis army by throwing untested units into the front line.

I hope that others out there are enjoying the game system as much as we, at SSG, are. There is much still to do and I will now return to the task of getting some work done. Arguing about esoteric points of procedure has never been one of my strong points so I will leave it to others to carry on the explanations of why your messages are not getting through.
User avatar
Roger Keating
SSG
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Ian » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:08 am

I think I may have added to the confusion here. I have posted the document "Creating new Battle Set and a New Map" some where on this forum. It was not originally written for Battlefront. Instead the document was indented for Korsun Pocket. Also I am not the author. (btw. My thanks to the original author for writing it) I found this document very useful when I started out on my first scenario. It explains how to get a map you created in Photoshop or similar editing program into the scenario folder so you can see it in the game editor.
This process took a couple of tries until I was happy with the result.
User avatar
Ian
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:37 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Postby delusan » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:50 am

Thank you Ian. However, the gripe is not with you, it is with SSG. Their arrogance is astounding. "Asking for my prayers to be answered" ??? Listen Keating, when I pray, it certainly isnt to the SSG staff ... you dont even come close. Youre mistaking yet another wargamer asking for something that has been asked for on this forum for at least over a year. Over a year ago we were told that its in the works. Now Im told that when other projects are finished, SSG will look into it. Thats a step even further back.
That is nothing less than total arrogance toward us wargamers by SSG. Then you say "as a final comment on this thread" ? More arrogance. This thread will end when I and other wargamers say it has ended - not SSG. And if SSG bans or otherwise prevents it from continuing here - I may well take it to other wargaming forums. We wargamers need to share information on the products on the market.
The fact is - Matrix markets some very fine games - both from a players and a designers standpoint. Take a look at The Operational Art of War III, Advanced Tactics, or John Tillers Campaign Series to name a few. These companies know how include in their games the things us gamers want. The forums for these games over at Matrix show something like 7 times the activity over the SSG forum, in my estimation. If forum activity is a measure of gamers interest, then it appears to me that SSG has been left behind in the dust.
Initially, I tried to alert you to one thing that an SSG customer wanted. Your responses were the same or worse than they were over a year ago. I think I get the point.
delusan
Private
Private
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:40 am

Postby Treale » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:52 am

Well delusan, coming on here with those comments is like going to someones home and telling them that their kid is ugly! Interesting ...
Treale
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:32 am
Location: Central Florida

Postby delusan » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:50 am

I dont mean to insult their child, but they shouldnt advertise a scenario editor of this type without also saying, "but its very difficult to use and we refuse to provide a tutorial to help you learn to use it". Im sure there are wargamers out there that dont agree with me, and I honestly respect their opinions, but we wargamers do need to express our opinions to these companies so they are aware of what each of us wants. In truth, this helps them as much as it does us.
I will not purchase another SSG game that advertises " editor included" until I hear wargamers on forums saying - yes indeed, an editor is provided and they actually tell you how to use it. I trust and respect wargamers. Companies that have burned me on the other hand ... well, my respect is somewhat diminished.
I actually feel that these SSG games could be blockbusters were they provided with full, complete, user-friendly editors with understandable tutorials. I'll take a wait and see attitude.
I wont bother you guys, gals and SSG anymore with this - enough is enough. Thanks for letting me express my opinions without flaming me.
Over and out.
delusan
Private
Private
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:40 am

Next

Return to Battlefront Scenario Design

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron