Gazala AAR

Discussion relating to Battlefront

Moderators: AlexS, Run5 Staff, SSG Staff

Postby Wilhammer » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:29 am

Armour, ATGs, 88s.

Reading this AAR, they are not modeled as well as they could be, some suggestions for a future patch, if possible;

1. Regarding the Defensive Direct Fire.

Why not have two rolls for Combat, sort of like the Retreat roll, but this would be the Armoured Combat Roll?

The second roll would check to see who got to shoot first, and if the defender gets to shoot first, the so shot up Attackers steps are not added to the final CRT; if the Attacker wins, then the odds are normally computed as they are now.

Example (with a 1 KM Hex, an 88 battery and some Stuarts.)

The 88 has a greater range than a Stuart, and the 88 can probably spot the Stuart well before the Stuart can spot the 88, generally speaking. In essence, the 88 has a much higher chance on to engage the Stuart at the edge of the 1 KM hex than the 37mm gun does.

The second die roll, say the AT Spotting Roll, would model two things; the greater range of one weapon system over another, and the differing ranges.

For this example, during an attack, before the Odds are computed, the spotting rolls take place, and if the 88 wins those rolls, it then rolls to wack Stuart steps, which are then NOT counted in the Odds for the Attack.

Right now, though the 88 might,with high probability, wack the Stuart, it will do so without 'depth'.

What is missing now is the range effect of the 88, its primary attribute.

Of course, this dynamic will change when yo reflect similar weapon systems, yada, yada.

AT Systems are attritional in nature - they tend to prune the assaulting force.

This change might help;

It's a defensive fire scenario without the risk of sacrifice units to draw fire, and without a phase being added to the turn sequence.

Its not too unlike, btw, the added retreat roll to combat.

------------------

As another possibility, in addition too, add Direct Fire for Tank and AT guns not unlike Artillery fire is handled.

-----------------

You guys might have to save such an idea for Battlefront 2 :wink:


--------------------

But, then again, I might be over concerned about this, for I've not played Gazala yet, and have only 6 turns of PBEM Saipan under my belt; definitely a rookie on understanding this complex, well thought out game.
Wilhammer
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:45 pm

Postby fabforrest » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:07 am

so, is it safe to assume from the lack of activity here that the game providing the AAR is dead in the water? and if so, why? is it not playable? not interesting? not compelling?

wazzup?
fabforrest
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:21 am

Postby Howard7x » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:19 am

JSS wrote:
Noakesy wrote:
Agreed, but hopefully it's a hiatus that means the game will be out soon with the updated features to beat more Noaskey quickly :wink:


Yep, testing is reaching the very far along point (won't say final)... part of this included a new build last week that will not allow older PBEM games to continue... So I'm calling the AAR here.

Appreciate everyone's interest in following along!


Fabforrest - Your answer was just a couple of posts back on page 16 of the thread.
Never, ever.... ever again!

Image ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Howard7x
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:35 am
Location: Derby, UK

Postby hank » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:09 am

As I look through this AAR, I question how different (if any) the scenario used for this AAR is from the Gazala sce shipped with the game.

Bir Hacheim was taken by the Axis within the first 8 or 9 moves it appears.

I'm on move 18 (playing as Axis), I'm winning by 1500 pts ~ and I intend on stretching that lead ... Bir Hacheim has been isolated and surrounded since turn 5 or 6 ... and the objective hex within the surrounded town is flanked on 3 sides by heavy forces ... but it hasn't fallen yet. I expect it will in another two turns ... or sooner depending on how many casualties I want to risk at the time.

Was B.H. strengthened in the shipped version from this one?

If not, Lord! you must have taken severe casualties reducing it so you can capture it. I could not get good odds many times so I just took my time and expended everwhere else (best odds were A2 or A3 - D1 if any).
By move 23 its possible I may even be at the gates of Tobruk. (the Italians are doing a good job so far in the center)

... and I've left the desert covered with Allied units burning in the sand.

Any insights? This is good sce ... I also played my first game through to completion in Market Garden ... but I lost by a bunch in that one.

later
hank
User avatar
hank
Major
Major
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:09 pm

Postby stevel40831 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:31 am

Hank,

Is your game against the AI or a human opponent?

The AI is not a good opponent in this scenario, probably because of the map size. After understanding the game engine reasonably well you should be able to roll to Tobruk without difficulty. The AI helps your cause immensely as it cannot form a cohesive defense, nevermind launch counterattacks.

Regarding Bir Hachiem, I'm surprised that you were not able to take the town without too much difficulty. You should be able to systematically knock out the forts with a combination of artillery (I use only the 2 and 3 rated units), airpower, and using ground attacks (for the most part) only when you are assured of destroying a fort, regardless of casualties. It's very costly to attack the forts without first reducing the minefields so it is critical to make sure you're doing that whenever possible. When it comes to the point where you are attacking the VP hex itself you should be able to get 3 "green arrows", but only do so after a successful arty strike so that your chances of a retreat are increased.

Not sure if any of this answers your questions/comments, but, I hope it helps!

Steve

"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out."

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
stevel40831
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
 
Posts: 735
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:21 am
Location: Berwick, ME

Postby hank » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:14 am

Yes, it does. I appreciate the insight.

I'm playing agains the AI so far. In a week or so I'll start a pbem game. I have two guys waiting in the wings ... biting at the bits like rabid horses.

I want to finish up this one tonight I hope.

I just see those odds when I attack a strongpoint with infy within and my nerves go to mush. When the best I can muster is an attack that will result in potential losses of 2 or 3 attacking steps for 1 defensive step, I cringe.

... guess I need to get mentally tough and just push those grunts into the meatgrinder. (I'll practice on this tonight ... :lol: )

thanks
Hank
User avatar
hank
Major
Major
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:09 pm

Postby stevel40831 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:42 am

Yes, it can get messy! But, when there's one step left to go, don't worry about losses, knock it out before it starts to rebuild.

Also, I forgot to mention, I try to be very careful with the 2 & 3 grade artillery units here. You obviously fire with 2 every turn, but try to rotate who's doing the firing so that you do not run out. Concentrate on a particular fort and do NOT waste the artillery fire on others just because they have ammo! This is a big no-no!

Steve

"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out."

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
stevel40831
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
 
Posts: 735
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:21 am
Location: Berwick, ME

Postby Ian » Mon May 12, 2008 10:09 pm

Hi guys

I know this must be the newbie’s question around, but can someone please tell me what the “AAR” in Gazala AAR stands for.
Also I will allow for one or two replies with outright laughter :lol: :lol: before getting the real answer.
Till later.
User avatar
Ian
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:37 pm
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Postby Chris Merchant » Mon May 12, 2008 10:13 pm

Ian, don't worry too much, there's far too many acronymns in the world these days to keep up, FWIW :)

After Action Report


cheers
User avatar
Chris Merchant
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
 
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:28 pm
Location: Adelaide Australia

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:06 pm

extensive list you have there- nicely done. I think a step loss represents a platoon loss in infantry as well. It is a combination of many things such as disruption and diorganization and actual combat losses wia/kia and missing i presume. A full strength battalion usually has 9 total (timed replacements and actual steps)-i believe. A company is often represented as a 2 step unit with 1 timed replacement as well.

Thats how i have been interpreting it anyways- the system is great. just wish i ould be better at working with the editor.

cheers,
john
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Wed May 04, 2011 7:22 pm

In SSG’s game “Battlefront” game, there is a scenario named Gazala. It covers Rommel’s drive on Tobruk.

In my view, this is one of the best scenarios in the whole series of SSG’s games.

The scenario has it al! Large sweeping armoured movements, close infantry fighting, armoured clashes, dogged defence, supply problems etc etc.

The map covers the coastline from Gazala to Tobruk as well as the area inland to the Free French defences at Bir Hakiem.
Guest
 

Previous

Return to Battlefront Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron