Last Stand at Korson Tournament

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Postby Lee Elmendorf » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:12 am

robjess wrote:The reason I didnt mention it in the Tournament notes was as simple as me forgetting about it. No one around here is perfect and we all make mistakes and oversights.


What??? I was lead to believe you were perfect and I've come to expect no less in the short time I've been here. Did you ever see The Man Who Would be King? Now that we know you're not perfect you will share the fate of brother Daniel Dravot!
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Postby thewolf » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:24 pm

Hmm, Didn't know Rob made mistakes, and don't the rules somewhere say that all games should be patched/fixed to the latest level?

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(Fighting desperately to hold out against those bloody Soviets...)
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Postby Robjess » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:41 pm

Ok lets deal with this.. how big a problem is it?

How many games is this problem effecting? ie: How many of the Tournament games are being played with 'zombie' :) units?

And is it a big enough problem to invalidate any games? Whilst Im sure we would probably prefer not have to restart any Tournament rounds now - if it does need to happen then it needs to happen now, not 2 turns from the end of the game.

So I would like to resolve this very quickly.. who is it a problem for and is it such a problem that you need to apply the patch and restart any games?
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Postby Nacho » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:00 pm

From my point of view this issue is a minor one. It would be strange that somebody win/loss depending on this.

In addition most of us should know that this patch was available some time ago, and nobody was correcting Rob when we saw tournament rules.

Any case it should be enough to state that from 2nd round patch must be applied.
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Postby Robjess » Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:54 pm

Nacho, I agree with your sentiments 100%, although I do feel slighly responsible for not mentioning the patch in my intitial post.. but as we have determined I am human.

But I agree.. I dont think this issue is going to result in someone losing a game.. but we try and run a fair ship here and if someone feels that it is an issue I need them to speak up now :)

And it goes without saying.. if you dont have the patch installed yet.. then do yourself a favour and install it now..
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Postby Pawlock » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:11 pm

robjess wrote:Nacho, I agree with your sentiments 100%, although I do feel slighly responsible for not mentioning the patch in my intitial post.. but as we have determined I am human.

But I agree.. I dont think this issue is going to result in someone losing a game.. but we try and run a fair ship here and if someone feels that it is an issue I need them to speak up now :)

And it goes without saying.. if you dont have the patch installed yet.. then do yourself a favour and install it now..


I never installed the fix, Im playing soviets,but fortunatly my opponent must have had fix. That said, if I lost due to this it would have been solely my fault. Mind you Im probably a couple turns from losing anyway, and you know whose fault it is? those dammed dice again :lol:
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Postby Lee Elmendorf » Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:54 pm

Is it only Soviet units that are affected? I really have no idea how many units are involved or whether it is a big deal or not.

We are not playing with the fix and after discussion with my opponent we decided to continue without it. We're on turn 8 but can still implement it if you want us to Rob.

I agree that it should be used in round 2 if for no other reason than to have everyone playing the same version of the scenario.
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Postby Robjess » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:02 pm

Lee as far as I know it doesnt effect many units. Personally if I was playing I wouldnt be too bothered with it.. but thats just my opinion.
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Postby Lee Elmendorf » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:35 pm

Well IMO it's your call then, as tourney director, whether to do anything about it or not. No reason to invalidate games if it is a minor issue. To be honest I wouldn't have even noticed if somebody hadn't raised the issue.
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Postby Graf Starhemberg » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:51 pm

If I remember correctly, there are at least two AT units affected, one German and one Soviet, both located in/around the Korsun area at the start of the game.
Maybe there is another zero step German AT unit in the relief force, but I´m not sure now - I already have the patch installed...
When I at first encountered those units, I applied the patch during the game without problems.
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Postby Joel137 » Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:05 am

I did not apply the OOB patch for the start of my game; I'm not bothered by it, but I don't know about my opponent.

I think we should all remember that all decisions by the judge are final. :)
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Postby stevel40831 » Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:50 am

I didn't know anything about this fix either and I hadn't played Last Stand until now. If it impacts a unit on both sides I don't see a reason to start over either. If a weak AT unit causes me to lose the game I need to go back to the drawing board!

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Postby azcat » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:49 pm

Here's perhaps another newbie question. I've heard that the Korsun Airfield runs out after a certain point in the campaign game. I've just experienced it running out in a non-tournament Last Stand game on turn 9. Its a bit of a scary thing! :o

Will the Airfield run out as a source always on turn 9 in this scenario or does it depend on how much the units burn resources?
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Postby Carrington » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:20 pm

azcat wrote:Here's perhaps another newbie question. I've heard that the Korsun Airfield runs out after a certain point in the campaign game. I've just experienced it running out in a non-tournament Last Stand game on turn 9. Its a bit of a scary thing! :o

Will the Airfield run out as a source always on turn 9 in this scenario or does it depend on how much the units burn resources?


I think it does indeed run out on turn nine. In the Campaign it runs out some number of turns into the game as well, plus the number equal to the number of turns that you had supply lines to it open.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a function to diminish a supply source if you were using a lot of supply: that dynamic added some neat tension to games like Enemy at the Gates.
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Postby Robjess » Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:21 pm

The editor allows you to specify that a dumb will operate for x turns., The x turns doesnt start counting until the hex can no longer trace a supply path to a map hex.. so for example.. Bastogne in TAO is a dump, but the dump x turns will not start until the Germans surround it (if they ever do)..

Korsun Airfield starts this scenario already cut off doesnt it.. so obviously it is set for 9 turns as a dump which starts from turn 1.. going from what you say..
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