Last Stand at Korson Tournament

Looking for an opponent for a PBEM game of Korsun Pocket?

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Postby Brubaker » Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:44 pm

Fantassin you might have difficulty there because as you know Rob has stuggled for space of late. If you have any webspace (with your IP)available the easy option would be to ftp upload your pictures there and link to them. It is not that hard really. I foyu want advice on that then email me. brubaker@esc.net.au

Otherwise just a written update here to keep us on song would be cool.
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Postby Manny » Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:50 am

An easy way to get some webspace is to signup for a spymac account - you get 2GB of email plus (crucially) 100MB of webspace.

This is what I use and it's 100% free right now.
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Postby Fantassin » Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:38 am

Thanks Manny.
My provider already offer me 100MB of webspace. The problem is I don't know how to use it. As he kindly offered to help me, I send a mail to Brubaker to get some advices.

I guess this could also be a new topic in the Chit-Chat forum.
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Postby Manny » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:05 pm

Np Fantassin, it took me a while to work things out too but if you want to keep things *really* simple (i.e. literally just use it to link to screenshots etc) I can also help so let me know if you get stuck.

Rgds
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Postby Fantassin » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:40 pm

Now that I figured out how to post screenshots here, thanks to Manny, I will be able to start the promised AAR.

And excuse me in advance for my faulty English as it's not my native language. I learned it from wargames' manuals :)
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Postby Brubaker » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:26 pm

Good to see you are clued up now Fantassin. You can delete my lengthy enail I just sent you :oops:
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Postby Fantassin » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:57 am

Here begin the AAR of the Last Stand at Korsun Tournament Final between Aberdeen (Allied) and me (Axis).

As I already said, this scenario is one of the most balanced and interesting from KP. It's one of the few which allow both side to attack and defend from the start.

General analysis (or my 2 cents opinion):

> The Allied player has three major objectives: 1) capture Votilevka and hold it, 2) take the Korsun Airfield, 3) prevent the Axis player from escaping the pocket (if he dare trying) and from achieving his objectives (see below). To expect winning, he must control Votilevka in the first 3 turns and the airfield no later than turn 8. His assets are 3 huge tank/mech corps and heavy artillery for the first objective, 5 elite infantry/airborne and 3 cavalry div. to deal with the pocket, and some good infantry/airborne div. to defend elsewere. His reserves are an infantry div (340th) and 2 half-force tank corps (18th and 20th). Other advantages are a permanent 3 trucks motor pool and partisans. Some disadvantages are a poor begining supply state and some very vulnerable (few steps and/or isolated) units.

> The Axis player's theorical (more on this later) objectives are the following: in the South, defend Votilevka, take Lizyanka and/or Olkovets + Zvenigorodka; in the North, escape the pocket or hold Korsun and its airfield as long as possible. To achieve the first part, he has 3 full panzer div. (1st, 16th and 24th), several elite mot. infantry, heavy artillery and, as usual for the germans, plenty of damaged but elite units. Other advantages are a good supply network and having the initiative for playing first. Disdantages are few replacements and a major river to cross (the Gniloi Tikich?) to capture his major objectives.

> One last objective which hold true for both sides is to kill enemy units, particularly armored ones (those at 32 VP). There is no shame in that. KP with its starting muddy ground conditions isn't a maneuvering scenario like Rommel or WW. So a 32 pts kill is worth the same as holding a major objective for 3 turns or a minor one for 6.

> A last point on the weather. I read a lot of players complaining about thaw. In fact, thaw greatly help in defense while frozen is preferable for attacks and breakthroughs. So even if thaw seems to handicap your offensive, think that without it a lot of your defenders will be rolled over by the attackers. And that's true for the two sides

Empty map for geographical references (1,97 Mb) :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/fmfantassin/forumpic/lsak/Map.jpg

To be continued with more personal thoughts about the Axis strategies ... and my first turn.
Last edited by Fantassin on Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fantassin » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:15 am

Now, some personal insights for the Axis on this scenario. In reality, there are two distinct battles: the pocket and the South front. I will comment the two separately.

The pocket: escape or not ?
If you want to try escaping, play it against the AI (I did it and it was very fun). Otherwise stay and defend because no decent Allied player will let you out of the pocket. Nothing much to do here other than delay the inevitable capture of the Korsun Airfield. Once the russians have cleared its protective minefields, you're doomed. This generally happen on turn 6 or 7 but some preventive measures could report that until turn 8. In any case, as soon as you lose your supply source (on turn 8 ), withdraw behind the river else ... But don't worry, no game I played have lasted this long, the fate of the battle being clearly decided before that on the South front.

The South front: the germans must attack but where ?
Forget the standard Axis objectives (Lizyanka, Olkovets, ...) and focus on the most important place of this battle. Guess where ... Votilevka ! Lose it and you'll probably lose. You must hold it at any costs and use it to crush the Allied best forces there. Of course, the other objectives are important (and can increase your level of victory) but none are so vital. What's the interest of pushing towards Lizyanka and capture it if the russians take Votilevka and roll over your flank?


With that in mind, let's see my battle plan.

In the pocket:
At start, you generally get some overrun opportunities in the west and the south. So on first turn, I'll try to kill as many russians units as I can, and advance everywhere to the enemy contact. On subsequent turns, I'll hold the line in the west and slowly withdraw elsewhere with 2 units stacks (one to entrench, the other to leave a detachment). During the 2nd-3rd turns, the 5 SS PzD will reinforce the east frontline. Pocketed units, except green ones, will get priority replacements, particularly if down to one step.
Image

On the South front:
In the east the two panzer divisions will converge and make contact to fix the enemy. West of the center, my forces (3 divisions + auxillaries) are to take Tichonovka (preferably on the first turn) and try to hurt their russian opponents. They will then push towards Lizyanka or Olkovets to convince the Allied player to commit his reserves here but it's only a big diversion. Around Votilevka the rest of my forces will position themselves in defense against the 3 russians armored corps except for an infantry division which will guard the west frontline (and make probe attacks against the strongpoints or overrun-able enemies). The 24th PzD in reserve will go north seemingly to help the center-west forces. In reality, their goal is then to pivot to the northwest to attack the russian flank and relieve the pressure against Votilevka.
west part
Image
east part
Image


Will this plan survive contact with the enemy? ... Soon to be discovered in the first turn AAR :wink: oh! and please feel free to comment
Last edited by Fantassin on Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Twinkle » Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:30 am

thanks a lot for your reporting... great!

regards
/twinkle ;)
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Postby Fantassin » Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:22 am

Thank you Twinkle. And thanks to Brubaker, my battleplan is now in the above post.
I divided the south front in two parts (east and west) due to its width.
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Postby Fantassin » Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:27 am

Axis Turn 1 AAR – February 10, 1944 (AM) - Thaw ground and clear weather.

In the pocket:
In the west, the 5th SS PzD with some help from nearby infantry overran the remnants of the 206th ID opening the road to Martynovka, and begin their trip back to Korsun area. Korps Gruppe B and 88th ID came closer to russian fortified area divisions but with no artillery support couldn't attack yet. Further south, two second line units take position along the river to hamper movement on the other side's road. South of the pocket, last elements of the 14th PzD and elite 72nd ID with StuG and artillery support overrun and destroy two isolated regts of the 180th ID (maybe the russian commander will believe in the escape scenario). As ordered, the rest of the pocketed forces advance to take position in non-clear enemy controlled terrain. The lone Luftwaffe sortie of the day is sent southeast of the Korsun Airfield to slow the russians advance and strain their supply network.
Image

On the South front:
In the east, the 13th PzD rush to the river banks to try fixing there the 84th and 94th ID while the 11th PzD and two supporting infantry regts are sent towards Olkovets.
Image

Against Tichonovka, the attack by the 1st PzD, 16th PzD and 198th ID, initially planified in two phases, had to be cancelled due to a very strong elite regt of the 3rd Gd Airbn entrenched in the town (9-1 at best, thanks to unknown units option). As usual, the german superior tactical doctrines allowed a swiftly replanified unique assault by the 16th PzD and 198th ID which suceeded in dislodging the defenders. Armor and recon elements poured in the town and the GHQ, pleased with this result, promise to send some additionnal replacements. Without its initial target, the 1st PzD shifted to the right and forced one of the 2nd Gd Airbn regt to retreat.
Further northwest on the road to Lizyanka, the understrength 17th PzD seconded by motorized assault infantry successfully push back two regts of the 359th soviet ID. 24th PzD are just behind them.

Defence of Votilevka will incombe to the 1st SS PzD backed up by Baeke Gruppe, the 34th ID and all auxilliary units in the vicinity. It articulate around the hills southwest and east of the town. The southwest hill is the key to take the town so it will be particularly defended. 1st SS elements take position on the east hill over the river to hinder enemy movement. Overstacking is prohibited to reduce the losses. Further south, the 75th ID is ordered to hold the left flank.
Image


Not a bad start: five kills and a minor objective taken. Aberdeen's turn now …
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Game over, man!

Postby StormCrow » Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:31 am

Last Stand tourney over? Per Fantassin's game list 'tis now finis. Who won? :?:
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Postby Fantassin » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:53 am

Stormcrow, I let you guess from the following AAR.

As Aberdeen seems not to be able to continue this AAR, I will succinctely continue the report from screenshots I have and what I can remember

Allied Turn 1 AAR – February 10, 1944 (AM) - Thaw ground and clear weather.

Around the pocket:
As expected the Soviets reinforce in the west and begin their push towards Korsun Airfield. Here, a major mistake in defensive placement gives Allied tank forces the opportunity to deeply penetrate german lines.
Image

South front East:
20th Tank Corps moving to Olkovets and 18th Tank Corps towards Lizyanka. Other forces are shifted westwards.
Image

South front West:
2nd and 3rd Gd AB slowly retreat towards Lizyanka with a local counterattack against leading german elements. 5th Mech and 3rd Tank Corps approach Votilevka without engaging the defenders. Further west a lone SU unit was rushed into the marsh south of the town to try to cut its supply line. Surprisingly, the 16th Tank Corps was totally disengaged and High Command begin to wonder where it will be redeployed.
Image
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Last Stand Final

Postby StormCrow » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:53 am

Hmmm...kind of hard to determine a winner from one turn...less I am responding too quickly and you are going to post others?

But it appears that Aberdeen decided to make a maximum effort, including the 16th Arm, in reducing the pocket. If he succeeded then the fact that he never took Votylevka may not have mattered.

The hole in your lines near the airfield may have been tough to recover from, but also could have doomed the intruding tanks.

But the deciding peice of info is that you told pterrok you were on a +20 win streak, including 4 as yet to be recorded victories. :wink:

So I am guessing you either recovered from that hole in your lines and did not lose the airfield too early, or not taking Votylevka proved too much a vp gain for the Germans and so you emerged victorious!
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Re: Last Stand Final

Postby Fantassin » Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:39 pm

StormCrow wrote:Hmmm...kind of hard to determine a winner from one turn...less I am responding too quickly and you are going to post others?

Yes you are too quick :wink: I will post all played turns but give me a little time.

StormCrow wrote:But the deciding peice of info is that you told pterrok you were on a +20 win streak, including 4 as yet to be recorded victories.
That not fair if you read all my posts :?
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