a new TAO version

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a new TAO version

Postby nikdav » Thu May 03, 2012 10:35 pm

there is a new version of TAO in the matrix forum.
But the link is expired someone already download it ?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3061207

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Postby JSS » Fri May 04, 2012 4:03 am

Thanks for the post! Missed that one someway or another.

Looks like only 3 copies got downloaded. Virus protection doesn't like the site and won't let me download a copy.

Will see if I can get the poster there up and running on this forum.

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Postby inqistor » Sat May 05, 2012 9:26 pm

Ah, account at last!
For a long time I was planning to take Zetterling Normandy 1944, and implement it into BII Scenario, but as a preparation I wanted to first made TAO. Luckily BIN works, after transfer into BII, something I could not done with BINs TAO version.
This is modified version of TAO5, by JSS (I really like your idea about "randomly" placing Allied Fuel Dumps). Link leads to full version (18Mb), but you probably can copy whole graphics XCR file, so in attachment there is Scenario folder (only 41kb). Just put it into BII, and drop there XCR from original TAO5.


Here is copy of my post from MATRIX forum:

After finishing Eisenhower, then Bradley, and finally Patton, I thought I would like to try incorporate reported large supply stockpiles at Liege, and Spa, and most importantly - change Luxembourg into very important defensive location (as Eisenhower clearly states, that it was NO-GO zone). I have played several versions of Ardennes battle (both computer, and board), and do not remember version, where Luxembourg was worth defending, so I thought the best possible engine will be DBWWII, as I really like scale, and speed of turns.

Timing supply dump actually were more complicated, than I thought, but during creation, I have also begun to play with Allies AI (seriously, why are they leave whole fortified line at first turn?). After few modifications, and defining several IMPORTANT OBJECTIVES it really plays great (Axis on the other side do not play as great, as IMPORTANT OBJECTIVES seems to work for both sides, and AI tends to leave whole divisions to protect once conquered cities). I think it can be repaired, by just deleting all objectives for Axis, but it will again weaken Allies side, so it seems no way to make good AI for both sides.
Anyway, later I have discovered, that 150th Brigade is far too weak (it have strength of battalion, while it had 2500 men, so should be as strong as other German Regiments). Then I have discovered, that VOLKSGRENADIERE units seems to be modelled on 1943 Infantry TOE, not late 1944 Volksgrenadiere TOE, with 2 platoons in Company fully equipped with automatic weapons.
Speaking of automatic weapons, also Fallschirmjaegers seems to be too weak, with their FG-42, double MG-42, and MP-44 used in Ardennes, and their OOB seems to be taken directly from Normandy game, where indeed one of Divisions was not ready for operation (and weaker), but both Divisions were rebuild in the same way (by incorporating three 3 batallion Luftwaffe Regiments).

So... I have used Tessin, and modified whole German infantry in accordance what is stated there. The main goal was to make units with lots of automatic weapons minimally better, than US units with semi-automatic weapon in attack, and something more powerful in defence. VOLKSGRENADIER divisions, which have no previous combat experience were moved to their own minor nation (actually MAJOR, because I did not wanted to copy all the artillery), and have lower morale (greater chance to surrender), but gets extra replacement every turn. They have also lower INTEGRITY BONUS.

Doing all this, some of US units were then modified downward. First, Airborne Divisions, having 1/3rd less people seems to have actually 1/3rd more STEP POINTS. I have reduced this, together with INTEGRITY BONUS for US infantry. Also I have lowered AT strength of US Infantry, and upgraded it for M36, as only 17pdr/90mm was strong enough to chalenge German armor on distance.

Points for units are modified accordingly to their modified strength, but I am not sure of influence of this change on game. So testing is needed. Feedback welcome.

Finally, some minor changes for CRT tables. Outside terrain gives less AT bonus, and forest battles are more bloody (no no-effect results at higher ratios)

Link to full Scenario

Two changes since that time:
1) 106th Infantry do not get free supply. Although it seems to be good idea in theory, CRT tables are so hard, that you have to commit there 2 Divisions, and it still does not guarantee success, as there is only 50% chance for destroying strongpoint at 10:1
2) 4th Division starts with TWO steps, instead of ONE, because I was not able to force AI into cutting AXIS advance in the area (Combat Command at Echternach ahould do the trick, but no matter the setting, it always moved to Consdorf in first turn)[/url]
Attachments
TAO5-2.zip
(40.5 KiB) Downloaded 219 times
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Postby nikdav » Sat May 05, 2012 10:29 pm

Wellcome !!

I download your mod and it work !!!

good job!

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Postby inqistor » Sun May 06, 2012 5:42 pm

Excellent. Large, or smaller version?


I have actually initial draw of AXIS AI, but its instruction steps strangely began crawling into neighbor AI groups, so I scrapped everything.

This is simple modification, where AXIS is on defensive in later turns, and it shifts offensive spearheads at the beginning. The most important change is lack of any "Important Objectives", so no AI side will leave extra forces to defend (as a consequence Allies side plays poorer).

Same rules, as earlier, just copy graphics file from TAO5 version.
Attachments
TAO5-2 AXIS AI.zip
Only to play against AXIS AI, otherwise it is identical Scenario for H2H
(40.28 KiB) Downloaded 197 times
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Postby JSS » Sun May 13, 2012 6:40 am

inqistor,

Like the new twist you've put on this one :) Just finished my first game against the Axis AI... lot of fun. Giving it a second try now.

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Postby inqistor » Mon May 14, 2012 2:19 am

AXIS AI is mostly yours, I just changed priorities, and put it on defense in later game.
What I am wondering, is how to force it to cross river on the south, as I can see you defined exact strongpoints to be attacked, yet AI probably can not get high enough assault ratio, and do nothing.

What was the final score? I have recalculated unit values, depending on their strength, but it probably could use much more polishing.

Two more questions:
how does 150 Pz Brigade have behaved?
What happened to US 106th Division (the one surrounded SE of St. Vith)?
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Postby JSS » Wed May 16, 2012 6:21 am

inqistor wrote:AXIS AI is mostly yours, I just changed priorities, and put it on defense in later game.
What I am wondering, is how to force it to cross river on the south, as I can see you defined exact strongpoints to be attacked, yet AI probably can not get high enough assault ratio, and do nothing.


Attack starts ok, then it quickly falls apart with single units moving out on hopeless missions or large groups of units that stop attacking and then choose to defend minor VP cities in a hedgehog fashion.

What was the final score? I have recalculated unit values, depending on their strength, but it probably could use much more polishing.
Victory level for me against the AI is not really useful data (20k Allied game one, 18k Allied game two). Came close but could not quite eliminate all the German units in either game :twisted:

Two more questions:
how does 150 Pz Brigade have behaved?
What happened to US 106th Division (the one surrounded SE of St. Vith)?


1) 150 Bde was just another good unit in general . AI chose to attack Malmedy in a most brutal fashion and stalled out there (was able to hold it in both games... three US divisions got really worn out to do so in each game).

2) 106 Div was eliminated in both games. AI went all out to get the division both times and ignored important movement West in the opening moves. AI hurt it's game position badly by doing this.

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