Tanks stuck on rocks

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Tanks stuck on rocks

Postby SS Hauptsturmfuhrer » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:42 pm

I was playing Operation Avalanche yesterday and had like 4 of my tanks (like all of them I think) stuck on rugged mountains that were not paved. Yes I know that is probably what would happen in real life. Is there a way to get tanks off of rocks? :)
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:48 pm

That might be a bug, units with tracked movement can't move to Rugged Hills, Wooded Hills and Mountains CRT's.

If they're stuck on foothills, your best bet is to get the enemy to bump them out of the hex, although you'll take losses in the process it's usually the most efficient way of moving non-leg units out of troubling CRT's. Of course, if you're playing against a human opponent, he might be smart enough to let your armour be stuck in the foothills.
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Postby Noakesy » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:59 pm

I did this once against Talos the first time we played Husky, which he found very impressive (and then KIAd the tanks). I think it's related to stack movement --- so if you move a stack of mixed movement types they can break some of the rules (and I think this was one of the reasons the developers stopped allowing stacks to move). I think if you put a tank with a leg unit and then move it onto the mountains the tanks will go there too. Something like that :D
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:02 pm

True, some units can "drag" other units around, but the way I read it, SS Hauptsturmfuhrer has a stack of tracked units on hills/mountains, which shouldn't be possible.

Mixed movement can be very effective in difficult terrain scenarios, although it's quite gamey of course.
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Postby SS Hauptsturmfuhrer » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:20 pm

Ya I always have troops and tanks stacked so your point about dragging tanks around is definitely what happened. My tanks were each stuck on different mountains. hehe, I know that sounds dumb but I was moving quickly cause I was playing against the AI.

Thanks for the help. I'll just have to look carefully before moving each time. So tanks also get stuck on foothills and in woods? I am surprised by this cause I thought foothills are quite popular for hull down positions.
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:55 pm

Tracked movement units can traverse foothills without issue normally (albeit with an increased OP cost), but OP penalties can stack quickly, and the hexes bordering the foothill hex are also pretty likely to be foothills (high OP cost) or some form of hill or mountain hex (no tracked movement possible), which is why whenever one of my armoured units is stuck somewhere, it's usually on a foothill hex.
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Postby SS Hauptsturmfuhrer » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:07 pm

Fighting in Italy is all about hill fights except for south of Edna. My good ole HG never stops firing except for an occasional refit. I suppose you could keep your tanks on the roads all the time but I don't like to miss out on any chance slap around the badguys. I reckon it's better to end a turn on a hill than out on in a cornfield.
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:25 pm

Actually, I tend to place some stacks in clear/farmland hexes south of Edna, because it forces the enemy to do the same thing. The stacks I can build are usually strong enough to withstand an assault, and with detachments out the enemy probably won't attack to begin with. With a bit of luck, the enemy will be in unentrenched and in the open at the start of your turn, after which HG and pals will bulldoze straight through them.

The main problem for the Axis in Husky or in most Italy scenarios in general is juggling with manpower to keep anything resembling a defensive line intact, so in Husky the Italians need to hold the hills whilst the Germans, perhaps with one of the Italian quality divisions, give the Allies a beating.

Armoured units in a foothill hex with a road might be formidable due to the defensive bonuses the CRT gives, but if it's bumped out of that hex and into a hex without a road, you're in trouble.
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Postby SS Hauptsturmfuhrer » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:52 pm

It is cool how these battles have many different tactical approaches. In my last battle I fought both in the hills and south of Edna, but my quality units are mostly in the hills which is opposite to your tactics. In the hills I had no defensive line due to the constant fighting but south of Edna it seems unavoidable to form a line due to the terrain and rivers. All my infantry units holding south of Edna seemed to be down to one step by battle's end cause of the endless counterattacks I can't help but do. Ditto for the hills except for a couple of turns when I pulled out HG for a rest. This battle is a bit strange for me cause I had a couple of Italian divisions in the Palermo area blocking off chokepoints but they never saw any combat. I have no idea what kind of reserves are needed. I guess I'll find out the hard way when Naokesy applies his skillset to my defences.
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Postby Abwehr » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:33 pm

The Allies can outflank the defences at Palermo by landing somewhere along the northern coast. If that happens, the Allies are pretty exposed for a turn or two, due to the clear CRT's in that area, but otherwise there isn't much you can do to stop them if they commit enough forces. However, those forces are coming from somewhere else.

The Axis could abandon Palermo, or leave a token garrison of some Coastal Division units and a single regular unit to make sure the Allies need at least a division with artillery support to take it.

Placing quality units, especially tanks and motorized/mechanized infantry, in the hills doesn't work for me for a couple of reasons:

1) For me, the general defensive doctrine for the scenario is that the Allies need to be delayed, not defeated, as defeating them is pretty much impossible.

Placing quality units in the hills is nice if you're going to attack, but due to the CRT's, you're not going to inflict significant losses, and the Allies have plenty of timed steps to recover. Let the Allies attack you and not the other way around. You're wasting attack strength of your quality units for very little gain if you keep attacking in hills or foothills.

2) The hills provide hardly any mobility of any kind, as roads can be cut off at various points and units can easily get stuck there, which is much more of a problem for non-leg movement units than for leg movement units.

3) Concentrating quality units in areas where attacks can be devastating to the Allies will slow down their advance, or even stop it. Counterattacks, when sensible, south of Edna will weaken the British whilst the forces you have there have enough timed steps to recover. You could also include some substandard Italian units in the attack so they take the step losses.

4) Armoured units at the defensive part of the frontline, next to enemy units, are rarely a good idea to begin with, as they're more useful as a mobile reserve.
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Postby SS Hauptsturmfuhrer » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:46 pm

I put in an attack anywhere there is a chance to curbstomp some allied blokes. So I don't restrict myself to only attacking in one area on the map which will soon be realized by the enemy. My army's top priority is incurring hurt and carnage upon the enemy with delaying a distant second. The more enemy that become casualties, the less enemy are later advancing up Italy and into Germany. Protection of the Fatherland is our primary goal. Time is valuable. Boots on the ground are even more valuable.
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