Sealion 1940

Discussion relating to Battles in Italy

Moderators: AlexS, Run5 Staff, SSG Staff

Postby Abwehr » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:15 am

I've made some changes based on the feedback I've had.

-The 22nd Luftlande now arrives on the major road at 67.20 on turn 3.

-Many strongpoints removed from the map, some of which the Allied player can place in the first turns at a rate of 1 per turn.

-Many minefields removed.

-Eastbourne is now a valid landing site for German reinforcements coming in from the south and eastern edge of the map. The northern reinforcements still can't land until a larger port in that area is captured.

-German interdiction is now slightly more likely to appear.

-Changed the VP's to match the new unit strengths.

-The two German divisions in the south-west now have 3 timed steps for regular infantry regiments to make them last a bit longer. Their landing site is off-map, so their reinforcements are abstracted.

-Some changes to unit strengths, primarily to the Fallschirmjaeger (I had overlooked those earlier) and the Pioniere.
Abwehr
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Arnhem, Gelderland province, the Netherlands

Postby critter » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:34 pm

My reply would be..... Crete.. The British left because they didn't want to lose the shipping it would take to hold it.


The British withdrew from Crete after the ground war was turning quickly against them when the first German ground troops started to land, not just because the Luftwaffe was around. Also, at Crete, the Regia Marina was around with the British having little means to stop a decisive Italian strike supported by German medium bombers. There would hardly be any friendly warships in the area for the Germans during Sealion.

It's also impossible for the Germans to win the air war in less than a month, so I'm not going to change German air interdiction much. The British decided to keep most of their aircraft at home rather than in France, which ended up saving their country in the Battles of Britain. In a July 1940 Sealion scenario, the RAF would be very much alive and kicking.
:shock:


Are you and Carl reading the same history books I am? The Italians lost every engadgement with the British navy in 41. They wouldn't even commit to escorting the invasion of Crete, except by 2 DD's and a cpl of MTB's. This resulted in an est. of 5000 Germans drownding.
During the Battle of Crete the RN lost 3 cruisers and 9 DD's as well as 3 battleships put out of action. Almost all due to Ju87's and 88's. Last time I heard they're not torpedo planes.
The luftwaffe could have kept the channel clear for the 30-40 days of the invasion.
The Battle of Britian was being won by the Germans bombing the aircraft factories and airfields. This was mostly due to lack of trained pilots.
The situation got better when German losses made the High command tie the fighters to the bombers. But the tide didn't swing till they switched to the cities after the Berlin retiliation raid by the RAF.
Imagine what would have happened when the Germans started landing 109's at the captured Brit airfields. Or captured a radar site and figured out what it was about.
In our game Talso's Brits have got 2 air ints a turn and got 1 during inclement weather. I didn't get 1 during my German invasion turn.
Hmm.. Seems like someone should have told the Luft. we were going that day.
Image
critter
Major
Major
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:17 pm
Location: Marine IL.

Postby Talos » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:54 am

A Quick update on the games with Noakesy and Critter (Turn 8 and 7 respectively just completed). Both Folkstone and Dover have fallen and Germans are making reasonable progress inland. Projected loss of 2600 - 2800 at the moment so will see how much I can make up. Pete would probable have a better idea if that is doable over the remaining turns.
User avatar
Talos
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
 
Posts: 755
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 5:59 am
Location: Kent, UK

Postby Abwehr » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:00 am

Are you and Carl reading the same history books I am? The Italians lost every engadgement with the British navy in 41. They wouldn't even commit to escorting the invasion of Crete, except by 2 DD's and a cpl of MTB's. This resulted in an est. of 5000 Germans drownding.


Perhaps if you had read my post in detail, you would have noticed I didn't say anything about what the Regia Marina actually did, just that it was always a paper tiger and could be dangerous if used correctly. The Italians stumbled into most engagements with the Royal Navy, it's not like the Regia Marina was a bad navy. It had the same problems as the Italian army: some good, some outdated equipment and poor leadership/doctrine.

The estimate of 5000 Germans drowning is absurd, it's one of those popular war myths that never seemed to have gone away, similar to how the Germans were supposed to have lost between 15.000 and 20.000 soldiers, or all of their paratroopers and 5000 mountain troops. Yeah right. Most historians, and the Germans themselves, put their estimates between 6000 and 7000, about twice the Allied figure excluding POWs.

Almost all due to Ju87's and 88's. Last time I heard they're not torpedo planes.


Germany didn't have any true torpedo bombers when the war started, so they converted aircraft including the Ju 88 in various variants. I'm pretty sure it would be technically possible to attach a torpedo to a Ju 87, but it would be very unpractical.
Abwehr
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Arnhem, Gelderland province, the Netherlands

Luftwaffe Vs RN

Postby Carl Myers » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:18 am

Well, one would not need torpedo's against British destroyers, a near miss from a 500 pound bomb would loosen 1 to 2 inch destroyer hull plating. Hardly likely to happen on 18 in to 24 inch battleship hulls.
Carl Myers
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:46 am

Feed back

Postby critter » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:53 am

Hey Abwehr here is some things I noticed
1) I thought I read you changed the British stacking to 4 per hex. If so It's not letting me stack more than 3.
2) Do Brit units have to enter the sen on rails. I tried to rail units that I moved to a rail hex. It wouldn't let me load. Was in the Northwest area. Might wanna check to see they're all hooked up.
Battle Reports...
If you're the British. Squeeze the landings as much as poss. Hold Hastings and start attacking the North Eastern landings. It you hold Hastings the Germans there will soon be out of supply.
Germans need to land the Northern force close to Hastings so that a link up can be made with the Eastborne group. Screen Brighton and force your way East and North. Do not try and take Hythe by sea. Its a massacre. Circle the wagons down south. Try and keep the supply hex. The Brits will have to pull back once the Panzers arrive.
Oh Yeah....Don't play Talos....He's a Mo Fo.... :D :( :(
Image
critter
Major
Major
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:17 pm
Location: Marine IL.

Postby Talos » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:07 pm

Quick update on how the games are going (turn 9 in both reached).

Once the Germans do get going they move at quite a rapid rate, am now gaining a massive amount of ground in both games, but not any major VP locations yet. The first of the Panzers are about to enter the fray along the front line next turn, so that will be interesting to see how they perform.

The northern landing can survive if it links up with the Airborne forces and uses that supply source on a temporary basis. But critter is right, the whole force needs to link up pretty quickly, otherwise things can go horribly wrong on a fairly quick basis for the Germans. With regard to holding Hastings it is possible for a short period of time, but eventually the BC forces will be forced back or become POW's, as long as the Germans forces have landed in the right locations.

In fact that is probable the most important thing with your version, get the landing locations wrong for the German forces (their really is no room for error in this) and the Invasion is probable stuffed.
User avatar
Talos
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
 
Posts: 755
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 5:59 am
Location: Kent, UK

Postby Abwehr » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:40 am

Thanks for the continued feedback guys.

I checked the editor again critter, both Allies and Axis should be able to place 4 units on a hex. If the game doesn't allow you to do so, it's possible you might have more units selected than will fit in the hex (like trying to move 2 units there when there are 3 on the hex already). In some situations, it can be difficult to spot that.
Abwehr
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Arnhem, Gelderland province, the Netherlands

Postby Amgot » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:10 pm

Hi Abwehr,

I'm trying to download your edits for Sea Lion but Rapidshare says the file cannot be found. Could you upload it again and post the link please?

I'm currently playing your edited Fall Gelb scenario with a friend and having great fun, so thanks!
Amgot
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:02 am

Postby Abwehr » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:04 pm

My Sealion edit probably needs more work, it might be too difficult for the Germans.

I'll take a look at the scenario either today and tomorrow, see if the units indeed don't arrive correctly as critter said (I checked the stacking limit earlier, but forgot about checking arrival), and upload it after that issue is fixed.

Good to hear you're enjoying my edit of Fall Gelb. The Allies are a bit more flexible which should make it far more enjoyable to play them, instead of the Germans scoring a homerun by about turn 7 because most Allied units are out of supply.
Abwehr
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Arnhem, Gelderland province, the Netherlands

Postby Abwehr » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:07 pm

New version: http://rapidshare.com/files/331181469/S ... 40.7z.html

Changes:

-British non-motorized infantry reinforcements now arrive by road/in trucks. They get 40 ops for truck movement.

-The Germans get a low burst (5 op) supply at Romney (basically the Kriegsmarine dumping supplies on the beach) which should prevent the north-eastern force from going out of supply too quickly, whilst at the same time making sure, due to the low burst, they won't be rampaging through England without capturing a nearby port or RAF Lymne first.

-Germans now get a -2 minefield combat shift instead of a -3.

-Carpetbombing strikes from both sides now autohit, they still hit once.

-Some timed steps corrected.
Abwehr
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Arnhem, Gelderland province, the Netherlands

Postby Amgot » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:49 am

Great, thanks!
Amgot
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:02 am

Postby Strax » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:35 pm

pete AU wrote:

The reality is that not enough troops were assigned and the germans should fail (has anyone captured london?).


The first time I played Pete's version, many moons ago, against the erstwhile Herr. Noakesy, he did manage to take London from the east. He had also reached as far as Box Hill in the south while his western forces were a little stuck.

I learned alot from that game and have never been beaten as the British since.
Image
User avatar
Strax
Major
Major
 
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:37 am
Location: Sussex, England

Postby Abwehr » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:48 pm

The main problem for the Germans is how to link up the invasion forces. If the invasion forces can link up and concentrate on a single axis of advance, they should be able to take London.

The British are not all that weak and even territorial units can be of some use. Mixing stacks of "real" divisions with the 2nd or 3rd rate units is a good strategy.

Should the quality British units be crushed early, however, the Germans might win.
Abwehr
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Arnhem, Gelderland province, the Netherlands

Postby Noakesy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:42 am

Strax wrote:The first time I played Pete's version, many moons ago, against the erstwhile Herr. Noakesy, he did manage to take London from the east. He had also reached as far as Box Hill in the south while his western forces were a little stuck.

I learned alot from that game and have never been beaten as the British since.


I don't think I could do this again Strax, I played this against Talos as the plucky brits and actually won (or Talos just threw the towel in). Either way, we both know how likely that is in a balanced game :cry:
Image ImageImage
User avatar
Noakesy
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1968
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:23 pm
Location: UK

PreviousNext

Return to Battles in Italy Public Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron