TAO5

Discussion relating to Battles in Italy

Moderators: AlexS, Run5 Staff, SSG Staff

Postby ciril » Thu May 08, 2014 7:51 am

Some possible small OOB errors:

- some US artillery units shown early in the game are shown as tracked. Was this intended (halftrack towed guns)?

- US AT units are shown as 75 mm. I don't think the US had a 75 mm ATG in widespread use then.
ciril
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:08 am

Postby YappyRaccoon » Thu May 08, 2014 1:50 pm

Maybe the tracked arty is a priest. They came out very early and became obsolete by mid-war. They definitely had tracked arty by the time of Sicily.

As for the 75mm AT gun. Is it a Chaffee? Also they put the old French 75mm field guns onto trucks for use against German tanks when the US was first fighting in Torch. Also could be a simplified representation of the 3 inch (76mm) AT guns used by the US which are not so well known cause the US was seldom on the defensive in prepared positions.
YappyRaccoon
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:08 pm

Postby ciril » Thu May 08, 2014 7:04 pm

I've looked into it a bit further. The tracked arty units have a gun and halftrack image in their unit info window, so I guess halftracks are more tracked than wheeled for the purpose of movement. They are 8", 155mm and others, not 105mm (though there may be some 105mm I have not seen), so they are not (just) Priests.

I thought 75mm was probably 3in=76mm, too. Maybe just a typo.
ciril
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:08 am

Postby Abwehr » Fri May 09, 2014 4:04 pm

The 155mm gun motor carriage might be the M12, but there was no US self-propelled 203mm gun motor carriage in service in the European theatre in World War II.
Abwehr
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Arnhem, Gelderland province, the Netherlands

US 99th Infantry Division

Postby ciril » Wed May 14, 2014 7:36 am

Why is the 99th Infantry Division substandard?

I don't know the fine details of the Elsenborn battle, but I haven't yet seen anything to suggest this division performed poorly.

More importantly, I had a full-strength regiment, stacked with a (standard) AT gun unit, flanked by regiments of the (elite) 2nd Inf Div and in good supply, surrender. Looking it up in the manual, indeed this can happen, because (unless I'm wrong), the ATG unit is not a a Combat unit (which normally would have prevented the surrender). Now if you told an AT gunner that he was not in a combat unit...Either way, you see how the substandard rating for the 99th can have severe and IMO unrealistic consequences.
ciril
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:08 am

Postby Abwehr » Thu May 15, 2014 3:13 pm

It performed well in the end, but it was an inexperienced unit and new to the theatre. I'm not sure why it's substandard, as most of the other inexperienced but trained divisions are regulars.

Aside from the surrender chance, they don't contribute a tactical shift, which might've been the main idea, with the surrender chance an unfortunate side-effect. You have numerous independent units in the area that you can stack with them, however.
Abwehr
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Arnhem, Gelderland province, the Netherlands

Postby ciril » Sat May 17, 2014 9:15 am

Regarding the quality, a quick inspection of Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsenborn_Ridge
reveals it was primarily the 99th who stopped the German attack. Note we are talking some high quality German troops, both in reality and in the game. Also, the inexperienced Volksgrenadier divisons in the sector aren't substandard.

Tactical shift, do you mean the positive attack shift for the attacker? If so, the 99th is unlikely to attack anything, at least not in the early part of the game, because the odds would be daunting. It's unlikely to disengage and attack elsewhere, either, because 2nd ID cannot hold Elsenborn on its own, given the mild assumption that the US player wants to hold it.

The independent units can indeed be stacked, but these have to be TD, tank or recon battalions, or else the 99th regiments may surrender. In the Elsenborn sector, these are all at full strength at two steps, so stacking them will cause a 50% chance for a double roll. Maybe that's what was intended, to have bigger battles (in response the German player has to amass lots of troops and support them with the elite SS and FJ divisions) with lots of casualties in front of Elsenborn, as happened historically?
ciril
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:08 am

Re: TAO5

Postby ciril » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:54 pm

Also, it seems that the 9th Armored Division, all of it, activates on turn 2 even if the Germans don't move a single counter. I was trying to see if it's better to activate CCB near Manhay or not, i.e. whether it's better to drive on Manhay on turn 1, and noticed the entire division gets activated even if the conditions (German controlled hex 3 hexes away) are not met.

From experimentation I see the whole division normally gets activated when the Germans drive up to within 3 hexes of CCB. But if they don't, shouldn't it stay surprised?
ciril
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:08 am

Re: TAO5

Postby JSS » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:24 am

Ciril,

9AD activates on t2. CCA is within 4 hexes of German controlled territory.

Marty
Current PBEM Games
1. Sealion (Air Parity) t11 out

User avatar
JSS
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2489
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Washington D.C.

Re: TAO5

Postby ciril » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:35 am

Ok, I didn't realize the activation radius changes from 3 to 4 hexes on turn 2 (and to 5 hexes on turn 3).

It does look a bit odd that the entire division suddenly wakes up because there is enemy (or just dirt, because there are no German units nearby) on the other side of the river, most likely sighted by the 4th ID's strongpoint, and not making any offensive moves. The alert is then communicated 50 miles away to CCB, but the other US units nearby remain oblivious. Maybe the 9th AD leadership did get wise and got the division moving before the independent battalions.
ciril
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:08 am

Previous

Return to Battles in Italy Public Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

cron