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Discussion relating to Battles in Italy

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Postby JSS » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:56 pm

Carl Myers wrote:Has anybody played RTTM 1.01? It seems that the map starts as all Allied control.


Should not be all Allied. Certainly you should see some 'uncertainty' in terms of spearhead penetration versus frontline stability.
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Postby Kingpin » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:06 pm

Hey Marty,

Just to follow up on the version for the tournament. 1.00 is posted on the scenario page. 1.01 is still in testing at this point?
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Postby JSS » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:10 pm

Kingpin wrote:Hey Marty,

Just to follow up on the version for the tournament. 1.00 is posted on the scenario page. 1.01 is still in testing at this point?


No, its fine for all I can tell. Definitely fixes the strongpoint release headache.

M
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Postby Kingpin » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:12 pm

JSS wrote:
Kingpin wrote:Hey Marty,

Just to follow up on the version for the tournament. 1.00 is posted on the scenario page. 1.01 is still in testing at this point?


No, its fine for all I can tell. Definitely fixes the strongpoint release headache.

M


Ok, will you be updating the scenario page to V1.01. Last I checked it still said V1.00
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Postby Carl Myers » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:34 pm

JSS
Should not be all Allied.


Going into the editor, selecting map data, and selecting show control, there is nothing but American flags.
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Postby Robjess » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:43 am

Version 1.01 has been posted to the scenario page.
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Postby CESteman » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:57 pm

Thanks Rob!!!
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Postby Carl Myers » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:02 am

Will the hex control for 6th Panzer Armee 1.02 be fixed before the next round? Currently the whole map starts out in American control.
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Postby JSS » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:25 pm

Yes, there will be an updated version for round 2 games.

Attached below is v1.02a of Sixth Pz Armee for review/use.

Extract files into 6 Pz Armee folder (or make a new scenario folder for it under TAO5).
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TAO5 Tourney Rd2 6PzArmee v102a.zip
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Postby Mark Sterner » Mon May 29, 2006 12:54 am

Hi, just picked up BII finally and was playing TAO5. Just a couple of comments right now: One is that the error from earlier TAO's has continued in this version: The von der Heydte unit is misspelled "Heyte". With all the Bulge fans here, I'm surprised this error still exists! :o

Second, this is more a query of the game system than the scenario, but dispersed mode has always bothered me. You have a regiment, with maybe 3 steps, "dispersed" into more 1-step strongpoints than the parent unit has steps. Okay, fine. However, when the opponent goes and destroys most if not all of these strongpoints, the parent can just abandon dispersed mode and still have its full strength. This seems too ideal for the defender (understood that you can't "enter" dispersed mode, but still...). I'd like to see lost strongpoint steps translate into lost parent steps if possible. Either that or just lose dispersed mode entirely. Seems like a "double defense" to me... :wink:

Anyway, thanks JSS for making this available. Always great to go back to the "original" TAO!
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Postby JSS » Mon May 29, 2006 2:15 am

Mark Sterner wrote:Hi, just picked up BII finally and was playing TAO5. Just a couple of comments right now: One is that the error from earlier TAO's has continued in this version: The von der Heydte unit is misspelled "Heyte". With all the Bulge fans here, I'm surprised this error still exists! :o


Glad to hear you picked up BII. Far & away the best of the series :!:

...err, well, Herr Baron von der Heydte is a much more interesting leader at Crete, Carentan, and Neerpeldt... the Bulge fallschrimjaeger attempt was well... such a fumbled attempt that I haven't even looked closely at the spelling of the name typed on the unit. :oops: Good catch :D

"Second, this is more a query of the game system than the scenario, but dispersed mode has always bothered me. You have a regiment, with maybe 3 steps, "dispersed" into more 1-step strongpoints than the parent unit has steps. Okay, fine. However, when the opponent goes and destroys most if not all of these strongpoints, the parent can just abandon dispersed mode and still have its full strength. This seems too ideal for the defender (understood that you can't "enter" dispersed mode, but still...). I'd like to see lost strongpoint steps translate into lost parent steps if possible. Either that or just lose dispersed mode entirely. Seems like a "double defense" to me... :wink:

Anyway, thanks JSS for making this available. Always great to go back to the "original" TAO!


Hope you enjoy it as much as I do :D On the dispersed strongpoints... Initially I saw them as pure double defense strength. Later I've come to see them as serving a function vice being directly part of the unit strength.

Consider this... the US infanty regiment units have 3 battalions... yet only four steps are directly in play at one time.

- If you look at the standard deployment of two companies up and one back in each battalion and (generally) two battalions up and one back in each regiment... then each step represents the combat power of a company in contact with the enemy.

- Given that regiments of 4 ID & 28 ID do not have spare timed replacements, these units are clearly understrength and have paid a penalty for having dispersed strongpoints. In general this holds to historical accuracy for the scenario. Dispersed strongpoints in other scenarios work similarly (but not exactly te same)...

- The dispersed strongpoints support uncertainty, confusion, and delay inherent in the intitial German attack. Recall that 7AD was able to hold St. Vith until ~turn 7!!!! historically. Also many other small units took part in the battle which aren't represented directly. Dispersed strongpoints cover their impact pretty well IMHO :twisted:
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Postby Mark Sterner » Mon May 29, 2006 3:13 am

Thanks for the analysis on the dispersed regiments, JSS. It means a lot just to have a cogent rationale articulated for this. Also reassuring that it was thought about to the degree you explained. I can now accept the deployment without concern (except... if the Germans don't destroy all those strongpoints, and the unit abandons dispersal, the U.S. still lose their timed repl's... oh well, I guess you can't go too deeply into it).

Having a lot of fun with this iteration.
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6 Pz Armee AI

Postby JSS » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:43 pm

Here's an updated version of the AI for the Sixth Pz Armee scenario (developed for v1.01 but should work for any version of scenario).

German AI works thru turn 6 in initial test. US AI has not been tested. Any feedback on stability is appreciated.

Note: You must unzip the two AI files into your Sixth Pz Armee scenario folder.
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SixthPanzerArmeeAI.zip
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6 Pz Armee AI

Postby JSS » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:36 pm

Here is an updated set of AI files for 6 Pz Armee (same Axis AI, revised Allied AI).

Found and fixed an error for the British units that was causing a turn 11 Allied AI CTD.

Ran AI vs AI test at computer + settings for both sides.

Results:

4 Allied victories (1 Marginal, 3 Winning Draws)
3 Axis victories (1 Decisive, 1 Marginal, 1 Winning Draw)

Net point lead from 7 games: +109 Axis (correspondes to Axis winning draw).
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TAO5 SixthPanzerArmeeAI.zip
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Postby Robjess » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:55 pm

Marty do you want this included and released in a patch? If so email me or upload the updates for me :)
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