Battles in Italy Mega-Campaign: On to Rome

Discussion relating to Battles in Italy

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Postby Noakesy » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:25 am

Ooops, on turn 34 and the 115rgt of the 15pzgr has 'gone to sleep', on the mainland, without giving my opponent too many clues it's gone to it's sleeping bag in hex 114-108? Does this mean I need the new version? Is this my fault for retreating too soon :wink:
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Postby Robjess » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:38 am

No it sounds like we need the new version.. do we wanna stop this game now - call it a draw and play Moscow instead?
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Postby Noakesy » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:42 am

What with all those allied units I've killed :wink: :lol: Ok, sounds good, let's go for Moscow. I'll defend the motherland :twisted:
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Postby vonjanok » Tue May 22, 2007 3:16 am

1st Fall. div airlandings (made by the A.I)? not very realistic, i think.

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Postby JSS » Tue May 22, 2007 9:28 am

Hehehe

Not a game winning tactic methinks :twisted:
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OTR - observation re British naval assets

Postby Breaker2 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:10 pm

Hi all,
Am currently playing a v1.05 games of OtR, as the Allies. As things turned out, my opponent decided to withdraw towards Messina at a faster pace than what took place historically. As a result, I found myself attacking Catania by about Turn 10, but unable to move my warships north to assist with bombardment. It seems to me that rather than have sea lanes open up according to a historical timetable (if this assumption is correct), it's better to have them triggered by specific events taking place on the island. In this case, if the Allies approach within 'X' hexes of Catania, then sealanes will respond accordingly, so that sea assets can be committed.

Perhaps there's something to be said for adopting this kind of approach, rather than one that relies on a inflexible timetable.....if that is indeed the case.

Fun scenario...! Thanks for the work!
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Postby Robjess » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:51 am

JSS wrote:Hehehe

Not a game winning tactic methinks :twisted:


That airfield could be strategic :)
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Postby Joe » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:49 am

vonjanok wrote:1st Fall. div airlandings (made by the A.I)? not very realistic, i think.




No but it's a game. If you can capture the entry points it means they have to enter somewhere else but they will enter the map more slowly.

Which is what the german player needs.
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Recce units still using ability while embarked.......

Postby Breaker2 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:22 pm

I'm still playing the Allies in a game of On to Rome! A great scenario, but a quibble has emerged re recce units, as they still have their +3 recce ability even when embarked in landing craft. This strikes me as being a tad unrealistic!

Actually airpower in this system seems to be simplistic in the extreme. What about aerial recconaisance, as used by the Allies to determine Axis coastal deployments prior to landings? There should be a function to allow at least a partial display of deployed troops if flown over. Also, air assets in this system purely operate to slow down surface units, without incurring losses on these units. Is this sufficient given the historical impact of fighter-bombers on Axis units in Italy? Perhaps it is, esp given the superb defensive terrain. I don't yet have the Normandy game...where Allied air inflicted huge losses on Axis units. Is air treated differently in this Campaign? One would think so......
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Re: OTR - observation re British naval assets

Postby JSS » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:41 am

Breaker2 wrote:Hi all,
Am currently playing a v1.05 games of OtR, as the Allies. As things turned out, my opponent decided to withdraw towards Messina at a faster pace than what took place historically. As a result, I found myself attacking Catania by about Turn 10, but unable to move my warships north to assist with bombardment. It seems to me that rather than have sea lanes open up according to a historical timetable (if this assumption is correct), it's better to have them triggered by specific events taking place on the island. In this case, if the Allies approach within 'X' hexes of Catania, then sealanes will respond accordingly, so that sea assets can be committed.

Perhaps there's something to be said for adopting this kind of approach, rather than one that relies on a inflexible timetable.....if that is indeed the case.

Fun scenario...! Thanks for the work!
Breaker


Glad you're enjoying the scenario! This scenario (and especially the Churchill's Way free landing version) is my favorite of the entire DB series :D

The game only gives you a few options for working the sea lanes: 1) initial sea lane used, 2) evolve ship to a bigger sea lane at a specific turn, and 3) alert unit arriving in a bigger sea lane.

I chose the second (same choice by SSG in their Sicily scenario) as it best fit the historical air situation. There is no gaurantee of which unit will be alerted so the third choice can be tricky. Also, if an airborne unit captured a key alert hex on turn 1 or 2 it might cause an ahistorical situation where naval gunfire ship(s) are sailing everywhere regardless of the air situation.

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Re: Recce units still using ability while embarked.......

Postby JSS » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:59 am

Breaker2 wrote:I'm still playing the Allies in a game of On to Rome! A great scenario, but a quibble has emerged re recce units, as they still have their +3 recce ability even when embarked in landing craft. This strikes me as being a tad unrealistic!

Actually airpower in this system seems to be simplistic in the extreme. What about aerial recconaisance, as used by the Allies to determine Axis coastal deployments prior to landings? There should be a function to allow at least a partial display of deployed troops if flown over. Also, air assets in this system purely operate to slow down surface units, without incurring losses on these units. Is this sufficient given the historical impact of fighter-bombers on Axis units in Italy? Perhaps it is, esp given the superb defensive terrain. I don't yet have the Normandy game...where Allied air inflicted huge losses on Axis units. Is air treated differently in this Campaign? One would think so......
Cheers,
Breaker


Airpower is, perhaps, the most abstract aspect of the game. Air recon, strafing runs, etc... would be great additions to the system. These features were asked for but required essentially the entire game to be recoded... i.e. a new game... which is what occurred for Battlefront (althought the air recon still requires scenario design work arounds to use). BiN & BII games have carpet bombing capability which can be devestatingly effective when available (limitation is that it only hits front line units).

For OTR/Churchill the game feature (bug?) that allows units in amphibious transport mode to conduct their special capability (i.e. recon, engineer mine clearing, supply unit burst) is used deliberately to offset the air recon limitation. The BC special forces formation includes three +3 hex units and one special recon unit; sailing these along the coastline provides enough "air recon" level information to allow the Allied commander to select invasion beaches with something more than blind faith.

You should also note that airborne drops provide excellent air recon of the available drop area while you're deciding where to conduct the air drop.

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On To rome - Amphibious Landings

Postby Breaker2 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:39 pm

Just finished a mammoth On to Rome game. As the Allies, I had the curious experience of landing on the coast near Rome no less than 3 times....chiefly at a non-defended Anzio in order to get occupation points and to force an Axis withdraw to defend a threatened Rome. Each time I landed at Anzio, Axis forces rushed to the area and I was able to disembark troops from the beach without penalty. To me, that raises questions of credibility. Given the risks involved in landing troops within zones of influence of enemy troops (ie one or more die-rolls depending on distance), then it's very odd that there is no such similar risk in disembarking troops with enemy forces snapping at your boot heels. Without such implications, it's just too trivial a matter of landing, grabbing points and then withdrawing. BTW, are points awarded on a 'once-only basis for occupying towns (such as Anzio) or can they be awarded multiple times if you re-take a formerly held objective hex?

Thanks for the info re coastal reconnaisance. What you write makes sense to me. However, re the first point about naval schedules being too inflexible: I would suggest that these schedules should be set up to be more responsive to the reality of the front line. If the Allies push to Catania somewhat earlier than they did in history, then the naval assets should be activated and respond. Having them frozen until history says they can move is counter-productive to the game experience. I see the point about the problem of airborne units triggering a naval response early in the game, if such a system as I propose was in place. However, the solution here I would think is to exempt airborne units and their ZOC from impacting on the naval timetable. Or a supply line must extend from the 'front line' to a coastal supply source.

I hope that some of this feedback helps. Keep up the good work......
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