War In Europe v0.30

Discussion relating to Battles in Italy

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War In Europe v0.30

Postby JSS » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:09 am

Work on the next update to WiE is now underway :D

Please post your suggestions & comments in this thread. Will also need 4-5 testers with a keen interest in seeing this thru. PM me if interested. Please note that scenariopicts.xcr changes are NOT on the agenda for this round... this means the update will not require downloading the 100+MB file again (during testing).

Work list (from my v0.20 game with Trojan):

1. Add jump location for Russian (all countries?) arrival hexes.

Discussion: A strong German push in 1941 overran many arrival hexes. Germans are quietly sitting out the Winter as Russian forces cannot arrive.

2. Update VP locations (allocate points for time held). Strong emphasis will go to control at end game. This will also fix capture all, surrender settings.

Discussion: Germans grabbed many far flung objectives in 1941. Now need a so what to the point scheme... Looking to allocat VPs along a scheme of 1/3 to capture, 1/3 for turns 1-79, and the final 1/3 for holding at end game.

3. Tweak sea lanes.

Discussion: Had Russian units land in NW Europe... Also looking to make movement thru Mediterranean Sea dependent on controlling key hubs (i.e. sea lane stopped if you don't control Malta)

New Work:

A1. Enable Sea Lion.

Discussion: Want to allow this option. Will not be easy to execute as the Germans (must bust thru quick healing 3-4 step strongpoints with air power and then advance far inland to have a supply source on the British Isles).

A2. Add Naval units.

Discussion: This will allow for naval gunfire, blockade of ports, and securing some sealanes. Naval units will only be able to blockade in locations where they can be attacked and sunk. Lotta of work still to be done on this concept.

A3. Create American arrival zone seperate from England.

Discussion: Idea Robjess is working on. Will look to implement.

A4. Start building AI data.

Discussion: Regions, AI groups, etc... will be looked into. Probably not going to take this very far in this round.

A5. Map tweaks.

Discussion: This will be limited (again not changing any graphics this time). An example will be to change the Cotentin Pennisula from one hex to five hexes. Another will be to look at what city hex should be label Rostov.


Please feel free to post ideas and discussion!

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Postby CESteman » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:48 am

I"m game JSS. I just PM'd you. I don't know anything about the editor so help me out there.
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Postby CESteman » Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:42 am

I had to reread your post JSS. Your taking on a big project here :) I hope I didn't open a can of worms so to speak! Anyway, on to some of your points listed for updating.
Naval units. This will be a huge problem I think. You have to consider ALL countries not just the major players. Example: didn't the Itilians have a large fleet up until the US took it out? Same goes for the French I think. Half the country sided with the Germans right? I think the US took them out as well... I like to consider myself a history buff on WWII considering my grandfauther served in Europe but I can't recall every detail such as the Itilian naval forces. For that, maybe someone on this board can fill us in? Same goes for the Russians. Didn't the US supply them with surplus Destoyers from WWI? I know we gave them tons of tanks and half tracks ( now known as APC's) plus the airplanes etc. I know I can go on and on about this but where to draw the line? You could also get into Partisans operations as I noticed, by turn 35 none of the Allies had that option to use. Just some starting food for thought. Feed back people?
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Postby Joe » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:46 am

The Italian fleet was taken out by the ships of the navies of the British Commonwealth in surface combat.

Some were destroyed by aircraft in a famous raid - a sneak attack from British aircraft carriers - the first time in history.

The French fleet was destroyed by the British navy because they were too stupid to continue the fight against the Germans.

All this happened in 1940 - 1941.

-
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Postby Joe » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:40 pm

I am keen to participate in the testing. I have a sugggestion:


Part A: Various people have picked up bugs or made suggestions; that ought to be not so hard to impliment. Suggest this is done first and that version is released.

Part B: JSS has suggested some more difficult things and suggest this be done second.
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Postby Joe » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:54 pm

Suggestion for naval units:

As well as bombard and interdict capabilities, Naval units be given attack and defence values like ground units. Then they could meet in the ocean and have a naval battle! Movement is restricted to certain hexes and banned in coastal hexes. Then they cannot directly attack a ground unit on the coast.

And have bullets ( 1 only) and the ability to use extended movement

Air units have the ability to place interdiction in sea lanes - the only way I can think of to represent air power. Land based air power will destroy the navy. It is necessary to find a way to restrict naval movement near enemy air power.
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Postby CESteman » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:35 pm

interesting concept! Food for thought right?
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Re: War In Europe v0.30

Postby qy_panzer » Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:08 pm

One question, will these affect barbarossa?
And in barbarossa, long winter means still war.
What's more, for germans, it's impossible to win the war in russia.
And to win in the 80 turn by defending Berlin is too time-consuming, few people can do that.
so can there be a modified scenario simple describe the war in 1941?
thanks.
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Postby CESteman » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:09 pm

Almost forgot Joe! Thanks for the info on French and Itilian naval units. While I would find it interesting to add naval units to the mix, wouldn't that tax an already large scenario? As for attacking each other maybe that could be added after fixes for the current problems are addressed like you pointed out in your post above. I'd like to see yoru options added but maybe on a small scale? Just a thought. I can see this growing into something to everyone to add thought. Maybe a "wish list" from the group as a whole? Just a thought. Another is to poll the newsgroup and find out if there are bugs that haven't been brought up yet such as the Russian forces disappearing after one of the three key cities is taken? Keep the thought flow coming :)
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Postby zanekin » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:26 am

Joe wrote:
The French fleet was destroyed by the British navy because they were too stupid to continue the fight against the Germans.

All this happened in 1940 - 1941.

-


I don't want to argue about this mistake probably part of the non-french-lovers international (anglo-saxon) habit... (As irritating as the anti-americanism in "french opinion").

20% of the post-armistice fleet suffer the operation Catapult (Mers-El-kébir, 3july1940). The survivor were scuttled in Toulon in november 1942 when Axis invade Vichy territory. Churchill himself will admit the miltary necessity but the political error: this "treachery" will hurt the free french forces development.

What I want to say is that it's a good example of the limit of this project: i'm very sceptical about the political (not for say the economic) actions in a grand strategic level simulation.

WiE, even with home made rules, remains a scenario of a purely operationnal level simultion.
It's just bullshit !
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Postby CESteman » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:06 pm

I know JSS is busy with his wonderful scenarios but I was wondering if there is any plan to update this scenario? I don't know what help I can offer but Iwill try! Thanks.
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Postby Robjess » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:30 pm

I am looking to update it to fix any bugs first off - so if you know of any please report them.. and then I am hopeful that JSS and I can work on this together to get any play balance issues sorted out.
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Postby CESteman » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:09 am

I haven't seen any majoy bugs except for the fact that Russian units can not blow the bridges but I think your aware of it. Later!
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Postby zanekin » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:21 pm

The fall of ONE city (LENINGRAD, or MOSCOW or STALINGRAD) causing russian surrender is a major bug.
It's just bullshit !
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Postby Robjess » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:33 pm

This is the main reason for the update.
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