The Lost Scenarios

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The Lost Scenarios

Postby nikdav » Sat May 05, 2012 10:18 pm

The worst and sadly thing about SSG games is that it is fairly simple start a scenario project,
but it is very hard to make a complete and balanced product.
I recently find in my old PC at least 7 old project for KP , BII and
Kharkov that i made years ago and after the delusion of the Kharkov Engine that
stop all my work on my old project for at least 2 years trying to port the project on Kharkov.
I think there are too many scenarios lost for lack of time and the incompatibility of the new engine.
A little list of lost scenarios:

- STARAYA RUSSA (BII) by J Campbell
- SMOLENSK 1941 (BII) by Generalzsc
- Op.CRUSADER (BII) by Robjess
- GREECE 1940 (BII) by Laska2k4
- KIEV 43 (BII) by Chris Miller
- KASSERINE (BII) by Pete AU
- .............

the list is for sure longer,
and i think the reason is the impossibility to import old scenarios in Kharkov Engine without spend weeks of hard work.
I love the 4 unit divisional games and I think SSG best engine is BII, Kharkov isn't evolution , is another type of game,
there are many other tactical game like kharkov, there is only ONE divisional excellent game BII.

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Postby mcperis » Sun May 06, 2012 6:11 am

I concur sir! .. Divisional level BII is best of the bunch (BIN is none too shabby either)
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Postby nikdav » Sun May 06, 2012 8:39 pm

Yes, and I am sure that 90% of this forum is with us.
Kharkov is only Battlefront 2 ( i guess 5% at best of total selling).
The strange sensation with Kharkov is that it is as a work, a frustrant work.
In the last week I made more progress with my old project ( VITEBSK 44) with BII,
than the last two years trying to port it to Kharkov.
With BII , but also KP I enjoy every time , why ? why????? what's wrong with kharkov !! and i like the new artillery system !
Every time i start Kharkov there is always a moment when i start thinking that I lost my time.
Bum Bum Bum and my divisions disappear returnig after some time in remote location.
But I want to see the retreat of my kampfgruppe of survivor !!!,
it would be better a computer controlled retreat of 3/4 hexes....

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Postby Abwehr » Sun May 06, 2012 10:02 pm

I think each game has its strength and weaknesses.

One of the primary weaknesses for most of the games remains the CRT's, where there's a huge difference between clear CRT's (most results are retreat results) and other CRT's (you often need 8:1 odds to have a chance of a retreat result). Even Kharkov scenarios become fairly boring once your opponent digs in on difficult terrain, but lots of units die in clear terrain.

I'd still prefer a significant increase in retreat chance for difficult terrain CRT's in all SSG titles. In almost every scenario I've played recently, I ran into the problem of facing in theory not all that great stacks, which entrenched in difficult terrain become nearly impossible to dislodge.

SSG games are one of the few games where you can attack an entrenched regiment, possibly with a battalion in the hex as well, with 2-3 divisions and not get even 2:1 odds.

It also feels weird that adding a single artillery battalion does more to shift the odds than adding another division.
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Re: The Lost Scenarios

Postby laska2k4 » Wed May 09, 2012 5:25 pm

nikdav wrote: ....
I think there are too many scenarios lost for lack of time and the incompatibility of the new engine
....
Nikdav


I totally agree with you, create a new scenario could be compared to develope a new game.
I loved this series from BIN to Kharkov, but there's a lot of work for a simple scenario especially starting with the map creation. Most of us aren't graphics, adding a map editor surely added more longevity to this wonderful games.

Sometimes I'm tempted to reinstall BIN or BII but I don't want replay the same old stories.
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Postby nikdav » Wed May 09, 2012 10:49 pm

Hey Laska2k4 !
glad to see you again !

I hope you reinstall at least BII ,
scenarios as Moskow or Kharkov43 are always enjoyable
and i recently start a mod of Moskow ( 05 dec 1941)
and one for Kharkov43 (Operation Rumiantsev).
And I am testing a scenarios (Vitebsk44) 90% finished.
After I reinstall BII and KP I find again enough energy
to restart some old projects with BII engine.

Have you upgrade Gothic ride ?
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Postby laska2k4 » Thu May 10, 2012 7:13 pm

ciao nikdav :D

amo questo gioco e sono tentato di installare nuovamente BII, mi piace l'ambientazione nello "stivale" e l'offensiva delle ardenne, ma avrei preferito il motore di Kharkov.

Non ho iniziato nuovi scenari perchè la parte grafica è massacrante, mi piacerebbe riprendere.

--------------


I love this game and I'll try to reinstall BII, I like fight in Italy and the Ardennes offensive, but I would have preferred using the Kharkov engine.

I did not start new scenarios because the graphics are grueling, I would like to resume.
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Postby nikdav » Thu May 10, 2012 10:18 pm

Ciao ! Max

Io ho risolto il problema delle mappe.....(forse e' meglio scrivere in inglese cosi evito di scriverlo due volte.)

I solved the map problem by using a full working scenario (Velikye luki for my VITEBSK44)
copying a section of ATD map over Velikye luki scenario map and then start modding data.
In few hour you have a rough new scenario with all basic data already on place.
You had also an unbalanced but working AI and so I hope at least to had a good beta
version and with the help of some "experten" (Abwehr, Brubaker, JSS, Pete Au, Robjess............. )
make something worth playing.

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Postby Abwehr » Fri May 11, 2012 12:19 am

I also have a partially completed scenario from Brubaker that I'll, hopefully, complete at some point.
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Postby Joe » Fri May 11, 2012 12:04 pm

Abwehr wrote:
One of the primary weaknesses for most of the games remains the CRT's,




Many years ago I suggested switching from 6 sided to 12 sided dice.

Instead I switched games.

Combat Command Matrix edition uses 10 sided dice. My review is here:


http://ssg.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6378

.
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Postby nikdav » Fri May 11, 2012 10:20 pm

Abwehr wrote:I also have a partially completed scenario from Brubaker that I'll, hopefully, complete at some point.


OstFront scenario ?

Actually I am very interested in late OstFront battles,
i am buried by tons of eastfront books.
( Glantz, Dunn, Mitcham, Erickson, Manstein, Raus.......)

Nikdav !
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Postby Abwehr » Fri May 11, 2012 11:40 pm

It's a Hube's pocket scenario.

Many years ago I suggested switching from 6 sided to 12 sided dice.


That would add even more randomness to the game. I don't mind randomness, but I do mind it being literally impossible to at best highly unlikely to remove defenders from their hex.

In difficult CRT scenarios in SSG games, more luck than skill is required for the difficult attacks.

Not always getting the result you hoped for is one thing, but sometimes there can be too much randomness/unpredictability. It can make scenarios like TAO5 very boring.
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Postby JSS » Sat May 12, 2012 4:23 am

Joe wrote:
Many years ago I suggested switching from 6 sided to 12 sided dice.



Joe,

You realize the game does use a 12 sided die. That exactly what the double die throws are. Just has a sliding scale for how often you'll see results 7-12.

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Postby nikdav » Sat May 12, 2012 4:58 pm

Abwehr wrote:It's a Hube's pocket scenario.


Very interesting scenario, and if you had also a Brubaker's map it would be fantastic !

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Postby Abwehr » Sat May 12, 2012 5:30 pm

The scenario was nearly complete when I got it, map, units, everything. It needed to be balanced, though, and it has been sitting on my harddisk for about a year by now.

I moved away from SSG games for a while last year, for mostly the same reason I'm getting a bit frustrated by BiI currently (the CRT's).

I hope I can complete the scenario in the near future, as well as a revised version of Last victory in Russia.

JSS: 2x6 isn't the same as 1x12, particularly as only the first dice roll matters for the retreat result, so double dice don't statistically improve the chance of getting a retreat result. They just statistically increase the chance more casualties will be suffered by one or both sides. The second roll being irrelevant when it comes to retreat rolls (and possibly also overruns pre-Battlefront, I'm not sure) often makes the second roll much less important than it could be.
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