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Postby Carl Myers » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:59 am

Try it you deserve it.


Well, jost one problem, Strax, good buddy. We have the strange idea that no medical provider has to accept 3 party payor, that includes the government as third party payor.
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Postby Abwehr » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:20 am

So, this thread is about national health/government sponsored health systems or services suddenly?

The Dutch one is pretty good, although I pay a lot each month for insurance. First I paid something like 40-50 euro's. At one point the government said that everybody had to be insured and the insurance companies decided to pull a cash grab so now I pay 120 euro's a month. As a note: if I need to get medicines once a year, it's a lot, so basically I'm paying for someone else the whole time. Not every "shared burden" system is stellar when commercial interests are involved.
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Postby Dale H » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:01 am

My best wishes to Ian for a speedy & complete recovery.
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Postby Malak » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:19 am

I am wishing all the best to Ian.
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Postby Strax » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:00 am

Carl Myers wrote:
Try it you deserve it.


Well, jost one problem, Strax, good buddy. We have the strange idea that no medical provider has to accept 3 party payor, that includes the government as third party payor.



I'm not quite sure what that means Carl but it sounds like beraucratic hogwash.
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Postby flintlock » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:19 pm

Yikes, glad to read that it wasn't more serious. Wishing Ian a complete and speedy recovery.
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Postby Carl Myers » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:45 pm

Strax
I'm not quite sure what that means Carl but it sounds like beraucratic hogwash.


Nope, not bureaucratic hogwash but bureaucratic limitation. No doctor has to accept the government as a payor for medical services that a doctor provides for a patient(third party payor). We have had a movement of some doctors going strictly fee for service from the patient.
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Postby Joe » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:34 am

Carl Myers wrote:

No doctor has to accept the government as a payor for medical services


In other words the doctor has a choice and can take the money if he wants to.


Carl Myers wrote:We have had a movement of some doctors going strictly fee for service from the patient.


Very noble of the doctors. When the patient can't pay the doctor does it for free!

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Postby Kingpin » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:01 pm

Carl Myers wrote:
Try it you deserve it.


Well, jost one problem, Strax, good buddy. We have the strange idea that no medical provider has to accept 3 party payor, that includes the government as third party payor.


Actually, that is a strange idea. Most of the civilized world has decided that health care is a right for all.
Fact - you are twice as likely to die in a US hospital if you don't have insurance. Its all about money. If you don't have it you don't get the care. We don't make that distinction.
The notion that government shouldn't be involved in health care is tired and lame. Should we leave it to the insurance companies? How is that working out? I've answered my own question above.
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Postby Kingpin » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:09 pm

Carl Myers wrote:Strax
I'm not quite sure what that means Carl but it sounds like beraucratic hogwash.


Nope, not bureaucratic hogwash but bureaucratic limitation. No doctor has to accept the government as a payor for medical services that a doctor provides for a patient(third party payor). We have had a movement of some doctors going strictly fee for service from the patient.


This reminds me of all those town halls CNN kept running over and over.
People would get up to the mic and shout about their rights and privacy. The freedon to choose. And my government can't tell me what to do......blah blah blah. They don't even know what they are arguing. Enough already, we get it, you have rights. Good for you.

Its a bloody simple concept. We all pay something (taxes), some of us will need care. And when we do, we get the care we need. Sounds like an insurance company plan......except its for everyone. Its not perfect but these systems run well.
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Postby Carl Myers » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:52 pm

Kingpin
The notion that government shouldn't be involved in health care is tired and lame.


Nope, it is a notion that no one, patient or health care provider, has to accept the involvement of the government in health care.

Kingpin
Most of the civilized world has decided that health care is a right for all.


Nothing is a right if it involves the voluntary participation of another for the evernt to happen.
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Postby Abwehr » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:10 pm

Nothing is a right if it involves the voluntary participation of another for the evernt to happen.


In that case, there are virtually no "rights", as every right you can think of requires the participation of someone in the form of that person not taking it away, it's that simple.

Freedom requires the participation of a non-dictator, democracy requires the participation of a fair party based political system and so on.

If you add "voluntary participation" as a requirement for something, I could probably provide a counter for how that voluntary participation could be nullified for every right you would mention.
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Postby Islander » Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:20 am

Islander wrote:Did you guys remove the "no politics" ban on the forum, then?


Hey, where's my attaboy for getting the Stalinist Speech Code restrictions lifted? :P
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Postby Treale » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:21 am

Kingpin wrote:
Carl Myers wrote:
Try it you deserve it.


Well, jost one problem, Strax, good buddy. We have the strange idea that no medical provider has to accept 3 party payor, that includes the government as third party payor.


Actually, that is a strange idea. Most of the civilized world has decided that health care is a right for all.
Fact - you are twice as likely to die in a US hospital if you don't have insurance. Its all about money. If you don't have it you don't get the care. We don't make that distinction.
The notion that government shouldn't be involved in health care is tired and lame. Should we leave it to the insurance companies? How is that working out? I've answered my own question above.


Would you like to quote your sources on that info??? Twice as likely to die without insurance! I doubt it.....
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Postby Kingpin » Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:16 pm

Treale wrote:Would you like to quote your sources on that info??? Twice as likely to die without insurance! I doubt it.....


Its been widely reported. It was a study published in the Archives of Surgery.

You can doubt it but its still a fact. Hey, some people don't believe that we've been to the moon.
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