OPT, March 2008, strongly unbalanced in PBEM ?

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OPT, March 2008, strongly unbalanced in PBEM ?

Postby boudi » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:20 am

Hello,

In my point of vue, the OTP scenario, March 2008 version, is strongly unbalanced.

I think that i am not a very good player, but i'm a not a rookie either. I'm an average player, i think.

As Allies, against a german player, it was impossible to get the breakthrough.

After 60 turns played, german player has + 9000 Victory points. it's impossible to take Caen, very difficult to advance, as the dice balances are often 6-7 max, in the Bocage : Insufficient to progress. 9 -10 dice balances came to late in the game.

The UK cannot attack more than once or twice max per trun, due to lack of support (multi attack artillry, general..)

The Carpet bombing of course gave a bonus schock for the allied forces, but it was widely insufficient for taking advantage.

It's looks like the german army was glued in the bocage and in the Caen streets, with (too) strong and powerful "yellow elite" units. Or maybe it's the bocage table result wich is too hard for Allies.

My opponent agrees with this analysis. He did'nt saw any big mistake in my tactics and strategy.

Any opinion ?

Thanks by advance.
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Postby JSS » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:23 pm

Interesting question!

Feedback on this would be most welcome :)

My experience has been (against equal experience/quality German opponents) that its a 50-50 chance for the Allied Player to win. If the Allied Player follows historical tactics... its maybe 33-67 chance of Allied victory... often a US Corps (with heavy artillery) is needed to soften up the Caen sector.

My game against AMGOT is very illustrative. Victory was only one good attack... one clean breakthru away. Didn't happen and the German Player won. Have had several similar games where I did get the one good attack/clean breakthru and won as the Allied Player.

Perhaps a game of OTP to see how this works?

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Postby boudi » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:53 pm

JSS wrote:Perhaps a game of OTP to see how this works?


It's the perfect answer ! Image

I guess that I have not had this idea to put an US corps near Caen, i played historical fronts only.

For the game, i'm in holiday weeks 33,34,35, impossible to play. So i suggest to start end of august / begin of september ? (I have to finish my present game against my valorous opponent. I play 1 turn/day, i need 2 weeks to end this game)

As german player i have to launch the setup (if we play in secure mod) what are your preferences ?

We played with (from my memory) :

- Secure mod,
- Combat advisor ON,
- Replay ON,
- Hidden units,
- Random weather, (don't know what is the best beetween random or historical weather for the gameplay, i should prefer historical)
- Fog of war (of course),
- What else ?

Very happy to learn how the Allies can get the breakthought. :wink:
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Postby Abwehr » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:22 pm

OTP and other scenarios like it can depend to a significant extent on luck, which from time to time makes the scenario less enjoyable.

If you get poor rolls on crucial attacks, there is just very little you can do. The same goes for when you're trying to remove the Germans from their hexes.

In JSS's game against me, he eventually got what he needed. In his game against Amgot, he wasn't going anywhere in numerous turns because of poor rolls.

SSG games can sometimes suffer from the enormous difference in CRT's between clear and non-clear hexes, where the influence of the player is reduced to gathering enough forces for an attack and hoping a retreat result is possible.

At least in KP, the shock values are generally good enough that you can get some advantage, but not in many BiI or BiN scenarios.

The (over)emphasis of the system on shifts also means that the relative value of combat units is lower than it would be historically, as many attacks can only work if you add some ~48 artillery guns in 4 battalions, but not when you add another full division.
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Postby JSS » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:20 pm

boudi wrote:
JSS wrote:Perhaps a game of OTP to see how this works?


It's the perfect answer ! Image

I guess that I have not had this idea to put an US corps near Caen, i played historical fronts only.

For the game, i'm in holiday weeks 33,34,35, impossible to play. So i suggest to start end of august / begin of september ? (I have to finish my present game against my valorous opponent. I play 1 turn/day, i need 2 weeks to end this game)

As german player i have to launch the setup (if we play in secure mod) what are your preferences ?

We played with (from my memory) :

- Secure mod,
- Combat advisor ON,
- Replay ON,
- Hidden units,
- Random weather, (don't know what is the best beetween random or historical weather for the gameplay, i should prefer historical)
- Fog of war (of course),
- What else ?

Very happy to learn how the Allies can get the breakthought. :wink:


Sounds good :) Think you've listed the main settings. Random or historical weather makes no difference to me.

End of August works for me too!
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Postby Noakesy » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:33 pm

It's a great scenario, I play it often and enjoy the game as much as the prospect of winning/losing on vps. I'm playing Slevi, we're about nearly done, and it's clear I'm going to take a pasting, but enjoying it nonetheless! :D
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Postby YappyRaccoon » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:07 am

Noakesy, allies or axis will win? I never tried OTP yet but like stories posted.
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Postby boudi » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:40 pm

Sorry JSS, our game is a little bit delayed. My present game is not ended, because summer holiday, but only 10 rounded turns have to be played before the end.

And you know that in secure mod, it's impossible to play a second game. :wink:
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Postby JSS » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:12 am

boudi wrote:Sorry JSS, our game is a little bit delayed. My present game is not ended, because summer holiday, but only 10 rounded turns have to be played before the end.

And you know that in secure mod, it's impossible to play a second game. :wink:


No problem. Let me know when you want to play!

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