OTP AAR Abwehr vs JSS (no JSS)

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OTP AAR Abwehr vs JSS (no JSS)

Postby Abwehr » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:31 am

This AAR could turn out to be the kind of AAR that shows you a fine example of how things can go horribly wrong for the German player.

The first turns were a minor disaster in terms of territory lost. Had it not been for the sacrifice of the Fusilier battalion of the 91st, the Allies might've taken - or advanced to hexes next to St. Saveur on turn 2.

The Allies were allowed not to land at Omaha on turn 1. They landed on turn 2. The main problem was that the 716th isn't activated by the Commonwealth landings it's opposing (which is why it starts with KIA's) but is normally activated by the Omaha landings. As the division wasn't activated, one regiment and an artillery unit were jumped by the advancing Commonwealth forces on turn 2. Aside from those 3 units, I've lost the two Ost battalions that start on the coast near the Commonwealth landing beaches.

Houserules:

-Units can land in Cherbourg 30 days after it's taken.
-The Allies may move American units to the British sector and vice versa, but they may only take as many artillery and support units with them as the units they're moving, which would be 4 for a division. This prevents American artillery massing east of Bayeux.
-The Allies must capture alert towns when they can as long as the Germans have retreated from the area. If I leave units in the hex, he doesn't have to attack. This prevents gamey "Barvenkovo" like situations where the Allies avoid triggers. I am not allowed to pull back for the sake of forcing the Americans to capture the alert hex.

The situation at the end of turn 3:

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The disadvantage of starting an AAR for a scenario you're also going to play with another opponent is that said opponent has a basic idea of what your defensive strategy could be and can exploit the weaknesses in it, so JSS had an edge.

The situation in the area east of Caen is more or less the same as the situation in the game against Lysimachus was at this point (which is why I decided to not print screen it so I can show the front in 2 screenshots): Hitlerjugend and assorted support units preventing a breakthrough in the clear terrain and a line along the Dives. The Allies have 3 divisions in the area and support units. JSS has probably formed a line with commando battalions west of the Dives, as there are units with 1 free hex in between them on his side of the river. They're not next to the river, but one hex further to the rear (1 hex between them and the river). That's clever as it means I don't affect his OP's through ZOC. On the other hand, it also means he doesn't affect mine, and when he moves to the river I can guestimate that he will attack.

The British rushed for the area west of Caen. I've abandoned all hexes on the western bank of the Orne and the non-VH city hex on the eastern bank.

Predictably, the Allies drove into Fontenay on turn 4. I had noticed too late that it wasn't occupied. It's a minor issue, though.

As you can see, there's basically nothing between Carentan and Bayeux but that will change soon enough.

I have withdrawn quite far, but it was necessary. The withdrawal from parts of Caen frees up troops for both sides, but I should have enough men in the bocage to make sure the British won't kick me out just yet.

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The reason can be found on this front. The American airborne forces got an excellent landing (Allied losses were fairly minimal during the landings overall) and got into the marshes east of Carentan on turn 1. With the forces at Omaha not activated, Carentan fell on turn 2. It's kind of pointless to defend with 2 regiments, they'd be surrounded before reinforcements got there.

We're evacuating the Cotentin peninsula as the Americans were almost in St. Saveur on turn 2 and I don't intend to fight for it with the rest of the front already in a somewhat bad shape. A withdrawal will shorten my line by about 20 hexes and will give me something the German player doesn't normally have: reserves. I'll place as many mobile (motorized) units in the rear as can possibly be missed at the front. A few Ost battalions are not a reserve, a SS Panzer division or a collection of motorized FJ/MG/StuG/AT battalions are a reserve, and I should be able to form that.

All in all, the hexes I've given up are worth around 13.000's VP's if held for the entire game, but realistically I would've been able to get around 3000 VP's from them if I had held them until July or so. That would, however, have risked most of the front. JSS has spend so much interdiction on other front that my withdrawal has gone without incident and has been an operational success in the sense that I haven't lost anything. The withdrawal should eventually give me a new alert division, hopefully the 319th as this time I unfortunately got the 16th Infantry first, although that did allow me to withdraw from parts of Caen more easily.
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Postby Lysimachus » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:53 am

I wish you'd have let ME have that much of Caen :P
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Postby Abwehr » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:13 am

There's a good chance you're going to end up with at least that much of Caen too, just not on turn 3 :wink:
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Postby Amgot » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:19 am

In my game against JSS, the frontline in the American sector is pretty much where it is in your game... but we're on turn 28! That's why I was happy to hold the Cotentin for more than twenty turns and then retreating with limited losses. It gave me a good amount of VPs without the rest of my front collapsing.

Good luck anyway, JSS is a very very tough opponent.
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Postby Abwehr » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:21 pm

We've agreed to call it a draw at turn 38. Victory was still possible for both sides, but in my opinion everything more or less depended on JSS's dice rolls and not on offensive/defensive skill. My line was fairly intact and I had reserves so a historical breakthrough probably wasn't going to happen unless JSS got good rolls. If his rolls would've been poor to mediocre, I would've won. If they had been good, he would've had a significant chance of winning in a convincing way.

As the next 38 turns would, for me, basically come down to shuffling forces around a bit and hoping JSS's rolls were not too good, without involving any real defensive skill as my line had more or less been in place since turn 10 or so, I suggested that we would call the game a draw and focus on playing Churchill's Way, for which we have just started a game. That game will probably require a better balance between skill and luck than OTP at the stage we were in.
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Postby Amgot » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:03 am

JSS and I are on turn 34 (I just updated the AAR) and the situation is pretty much the same. We'll see wether it's worth it to continue or not.
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Postby JSS » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:59 am

Confirmed again with Abwehr this week that our game is long over and I'm cleared to view & discuss this thread :)

Game with Abwehr ended with a 1000 pt German lead projecting to somewhere in the 6000-7000 pt range. That followed losing 3rd of 5 Caen hexes and Caumont.

Next line of key cities were Coutances, St. Lo, Villers-Bocage, and 4,5 hexes of Caen. These would have fallen in plenty of time for an Allied Victory. Following the 2nd Brit and US carpet bombing, it might have been a route... you never know though... I would not have had fun playing out Abwehr's turns and agreed to the draw as such. No fun equals no reason to continue in my book.

Point I wish to make here is that the game against Amgot is a much more difficult one for me. Still projecting a significant Allied victory :twisted: ... just wondering if I'll run out of time in it! :evil: :shock:

So, yes, Amgot... our game is most definitely worth playing out as I'm not sure who'll win!

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Postby Amgot » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:35 am

JSS wrote:Point I wish to make here is that the game against Amgot is a much more difficult one for me. Still projecting a significant Allied victory :twisted: ... just wondering if I'll run out of time in it! :evil: :shock:

So, yes, Amgot... our game is most definitely worth playing out as I'm not sure who'll win!


Good to know! Sorry for the slow pace by the way, I'm very busy with work at the moment.
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Things you learn

Postby Harry Gilmer » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:50 am

Things I have learned....

I am reading a book and I just learned that AMGOT is an acronym! I have never really read up on Operation Overlord and now that I am I am learning a heck of a lot.
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Postby critter » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:01 pm

JSS wrote:Confirmed again with Abwehr this week that our game is long over and I'm cleared to view & discuss this thread :)

Game with Abwehr ended with a 1000 pt German lead projecting to somewhere in the 6000-7000 pt range. That followed losing 3rd of 5 Caen hexes and Caumont.

Next line of key cities were Coutances, St. Lo, Villers-Bocage, and 4,5 hexes of Caen. These would have fallen in plenty of time for an Allied Victory. Following the 2nd Brit and US carpet bombing, it might have been a route... you never know though... I would not have had fun playing out Abwehr's turns and agreed to the draw as such. No fun equals no reason to continue in my book.

Point I wish to make here is that the game against Amgot is a much more difficult one for me. Still projecting a significant Allied victory :twisted: ... just wondering if I'll run out of time in it! :evil: :shock:

So, yes, Amgot... our game is most definitely worth playing out as I'm not sure who'll win!

JSS


Would have liked to seen if you could have pulled it out. It may be a viable strategy. It again.. uses one players weakness (Allied invasion timetable) against him. An easy fix would be to put strong points on all the Victory/Alert hexes. Then the Allies could slow the pace down.
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Re: Things you learn

Postby Amgot » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:31 pm

Harry Gilmer wrote:Things I have learned....

I am reading a book and I just learned that AMGOT is an acronym! I have never really read up on Operation Overlord and now that I am I am learning a heck of a lot.


Good catch! ;)
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